"We have foiled mass murder on an unimaginable scale"

Undertoad · 08-10-2006, 07:37 AM

Undertoad · 08-10-2006, 07:38 AM

Resident Brits, please let us know what the sense is in public.

Undertoad · 08-10-2006, 07:42 AM

CNN's Peter Bergen, who interviewed Bin Laden and is really good on terrorism, points out that this is probably al Qaeda because they had a similar plot in the Pacific in the mid-90s and they had a similar bomb contruction method at one point.

Hippikos · 08-10-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

CNN's Peter Bergen, who interviewed Bin Laden and is really good on terrorism, points out that this is probably al Qaeda because they had a similar plot in the Pacific in the mid-90s and they had a similar bomb contruction method at one point.

Operation Bojikna

"The two had already converted fourteen bottles of contact lens solution into bottles containing nitroglycerin, which was readily available in the Philippines. Yousef taped a metal rod to the arch of his of foot in place of the detonators. Yousef and Mohammed wore jewelry and clothing with metal to confuse airport security. They packed condoms in their bags to support their story that they were meeting women."

MaggieL · 08-10-2006, 08:21 AM

Well, glad my UK trip was last month and not this month.

Griff · 08-10-2006, 08:33 AM

Yep, gonna be some serious time spent sittin' around.

MaggieL · 08-10-2006, 10:29 AM

My understanding is that the explosive in this case was two components that would pass screening individually but were to be reacted in flight.

Nitroglycerine certainly will not pass a screen.

Hippikos · 08-10-2006, 11:04 AM

Maybe not nitro, but the way they seem to have this operation planned looks very simular.

At the other hand I remember the Toronto Terrorist Hype

Kitsune · 08-10-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Nitroglycerine certainly will not pass a screen.

Not only that, but isn't nitroglycerine pretty difficult to carry? I had to look up how to make the stuff stable and it doesn't sound like a plausible component of this supposed plot:

Quote:

Early in the history of this explosive it was discovered that liquid nitroglycerin can be "desensitized" by cooling to 5 to 10 °C (40 to 50 °F), at which temperature it freezes, contracting upon solidification. However, later thawing can be extremely sensitizing, especially if impurities are present or if warming is too rapid. It is possible to chemically "desensitize" nitroglycerin to a point where it can be considered approximately as "safe" as modern High Explosive formulations, by the addition of approximately 10 to 30% ethanol, acetone, or dinitrotoluene (percentage varies with the desensitizing agent used). Desensitization requires extra effort to reconstitute the "pure" product. Failing this, it must be assumed that desensitized nitroglycerin is substantially more difficult to detonate, possibly rendering it useless as an explosive for practical application.

Hippikos · 08-10-2006, 01:09 PM

Liquid explosives

" The best known "liquid bomb" is nitroglycerine, commonly thought of as a deadly material that will detonate with the slightest movement.

This idea is a myth, said Dr Alford, chairman of the explosives company Alford Technologies.

In fact nitroglycerine, kept properly, is relatively stable and will not explode unless "you whack it quite hard," he said. Usually mixed with another material, such as nitroglycol, it would have to be ignited with a detonator."

MaggieL · 08-10-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Not only that, but isn't nitroglycerine pretty difficult to carry?

Funny how being a suicide bomber simplifies safety concerns.

Kitsune · 08-10-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Funny how being a suicide bomber simplifies safety concerns.

What, that isn't obvious? You thought there might be some concern for the life of a person about to kill themselves? I thought that, given the voltile nature of the explosive, that transporting it without setting it off early was an issue. Interesting link, Hippikos.

Sundae · 08-10-2006, 12:31 PM

The only people I know who have been affected are my niece and nephew - new security guidelines mean that when they fly to Greece for their holiday (next week I think) they can't take any toys with them. I assume my sister called some sort of hotline to find this out.

An interesting programme on Channel 4 this week suggested that British born Muslims are more at odds with the British way of life than their immigrant parents or grandparents. It was suggested that immigrants came to this country to find a better way of life, and that their offspring, freed from the struggle simply to stay alive are able to study harder and take a more religious view of life. Leading (in some cases) to a rejection of the country they were born in and feel no loyalty to.

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsi...uslim_survey/#

It's thought provoking at least, without being sensationalist.

This is the survey results (it's an Adobe document, don't know if that makes a difference)
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SU...20Download.pdf

MaggieL · 08-10-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

...their offspring, freed from the struggle simply to stay alive are able to study harder and take a more religious view of life.

For some values of "religious".

Kitsune · 08-10-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Michael Chertoff, the US Homeland Security Secretary, said that the would-be terrorists planned to carry the explosive material and detonating devices on to aircraft disguised as drinks

Quote:

...innocuous on their own but could be potentially deadly when mixed.

08-10-2006, 07:37 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	"We have foiled mass murder on an unimaginable scale" Times (British)

08-10-2006, 08:21 AM	#5
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	Well, glad my UK trip was last month and not this month. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

08-10-2006, 08:33 AM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Yep, gonna be some serious time spent sittin' around. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

08-10-2006, 10:29 AM	#7
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	My understanding is that the explosive in this case was two components that would pass screening individually but were to be reacted in flight. Nitroglycerine certainly will not pass a screen. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

08-10-2006, 11:04 AM	#8
Hippikos Flocci Non Facio Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In The Line Of Fire Posts: 571	Maybe not nitro, but the way they seem to have this operation planned looks very simular. At the other hand I remember the Toronto Terrorist Hype __________________ Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

08-10-2006, 07:38 AM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Resident Brits, please let us know what the sense is in public.

08-10-2006, 07:42 AM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	CNN's Peter Bergen, who interviewed Bin Laden and is really good on terrorism, points out that this is probably al Qaeda because they had a similar plot in the Pacific in the mid-90s and they had a similar bomb contruction method at one point.

08-10-2006, 01:09 PM	#10
Hippikos Flocci Non Facio Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In The Line Of Fire Posts: 571	Liquid explosives " The best known "liquid bomb" is nitroglycerine, commonly thought of as a deadly material that will detonate with the slightest movement. This idea is a myth, said Dr Alford, chairman of the explosives company Alford Technologies. In fact nitroglycerine, kept properly, is relatively stable and will not explode unless "you whack it quite hard," he said. Usually mixed with another material, such as nitroglycol, it would have to be ignited with a detonator." __________________ Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

08-10-2006, 12:31 PM	#13
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	The only people I know who have been affected are my niece and nephew - new security guidelines mean that when they fly to Greece for their holiday (next week I think) they can't take any toys with them. I assume my sister called some sort of hotline to find this out. An interesting programme on Channel 4 this week suggested that British born Muslims are more at odds with the British way of life than their immigrant parents or grandparents. It was suggested that immigrants came to this country to find a better way of life, and that their offspring, freed from the struggle simply to stay alive are able to study harder and take a more religious view of life. Leading (in some cases) to a rejection of the country they were born in and feel no loyalty to. http://www.channel4.com/news/microsi...uslim_survey/# It's thought provoking at least, without being sensationalist. This is the survey results (it's an Adobe document, don't know if that makes a difference) http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SU...20Download.pdf __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac Last edited by Sundae; 08-10-2006 at 12:43 PM.

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