Palatsinian power struggle.

jaguar · 07-24-2004, 09:04 AM

If things keep going the way they are it's starting to look like Arafat might get pushed out if he doesn't give a lot more ground and allow real reform. It appears a lot of the cops that protested the new security chief have been fired and joined the external militas and are now waging a campaign that is being slowly stepped up. Some attacks are making the news but talking to a couple of people on the ground it sounds like the usual minor anarchy has turned into total security colapse and every armed faction is out in force.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-24-2004, 09:42 AM

Will they implode like the Soviet Union?

Elspode · 07-24-2004, 10:08 AM

I'll bet the Israeli's are loving it, too.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-24-2004, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

I'll bet the Israeli's are loving it, too.

Along with causing it.

jaguar · 07-24-2004, 10:29 AM

Not really, this is more about a new generation being sick of the cronyism of the old guard, this could end very well, a coherent less corrupt PA is in everyone's interest.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-24-2004, 03:02 PM

Don't you think the younger Pals, see they are moving backward under the Old Guards methods/policy?

lookout123 · 07-24-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Don't you think the younger Pals, see they are moving backward under the Old Guards methods/policy?

don't you think the younger ________ see they are moving backward, and yet they still set up road side bombs, strap explosives to themselves, kidnap contractors, etc...

different nationality, different countries, different targets, same religion.

jaguar · 07-24-2004, 03:10 PM

The issue is more about internal corruption and cronyism than direction. As far as they're concerned the Gaza Pullout is a major victory. There is, IMHO a solution in sight now, it'll take many years yet but it's possible.

lookout123 · 07-24-2004, 03:13 PM

we've covered this ground before.. but i don't think we will ever see peace in the middle east. world peace is an unachievable goal because there are too many divergent interests at play.

jaguar · 07-24-2004, 03:16 PM

Yes and no. The wall may be unfair but it might keep them apart long enough to help things. If they really do pull out of Gaza it'll force the PA to take real authority which might lead to that being a more effective organisation in and of itself. If the Gaza pullout is successful and something similar follow in the West Bank? You'd be halfway there.

lookout123 · 07-24-2004, 03:36 PM

IMO the peace would last exactly long enough for the world to drink one glass of champaigne/sparkling cider before someone looked at another crosseyed and the shooting began again.

some of the people involved have defined themselves in their militance. some people would rather stay in a state of war than have to redefine their role in life.

jaguar · 07-24-2004, 03:40 PM

But of course but that applies to most of today's comflicts, there are always wackjobs and extremists but as long as they exist on the fringes they're not a big issue. This kind of defusion takes generations to complete but the seeds are the important thing.

lookout123 · 07-24-2004, 03:43 PM

i agree, all humanity is like that. that is why i don't believe world peace is achievable. if you put 5 people into a house they will pair off into at least 2 sides and there will be conflict. amplify that to a global scale and you have planet earth.

that is not to say that peace isn't a noble goal to strive for. it is and we should. i just dont' believe it is achievable.

jaguar · 07-24-2004, 03:50 PM

world peace? hell no. But a situation that doesn't involve civvies getting nailbombed and apache choppers firing missles into crowded suburbs? Yea.

lookout123 · 07-24-2004, 04:13 PM

but jag - think of the children. what would lead the evening news in this new world of yours? parents may not have anything to watch and may resort to speaking with their children. dammit man - i implore you, think of the children

07-24-2004, 09:04 AM	#1
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Palatsinian power struggle. If things keep going the way they are it's starting to look like Arafat might get pushed out if he doesn't give a lot more ground and allow real reform. It appears a lot of the cops that protested the new security chief have been fired and joined the external militas and are now waging a campaign that is being slowly stepped up. Some attacks are making the news but talking to a couple of people on the ground it sounds like the usual minor anarchy has turned into total security colapse and every armed faction is out in force. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-24-2004, 09:42 AM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Will they implode like the Soviet Union? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-24-2004, 10:08 AM	#3
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I'll bet the Israeli's are loving it, too. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

07-24-2004, 10:29 AM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Not really, this is more about a new generation being sick of the cronyism of the old guard, this could end very well, a coherent less corrupt PA is in everyone's interest. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-24-2004, 03:02 PM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Don't you think the younger Pals, see they are moving backward under the Old Guards methods/policy? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-24-2004, 03:10 PM	#8
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	The issue is more about internal corruption and cronyism than direction. As far as they're concerned the Gaza Pullout is a major victory. There is, IMHO a solution in sight now, it'll take many years yet but it's possible. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-24-2004, 03:13 PM	#9
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	we've covered this ground before.. but i don't think we will ever see peace in the middle east. world peace is an unachievable goal because there are too many divergent interests at play. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-24-2004, 03:16 PM	#10
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Yes and no. The wall may be unfair but it might keep them apart long enough to help things. If they really do pull out of Gaza it'll force the PA to take real authority which might lead to that being a more effective organisation in and of itself. If the Gaza pullout is successful and something similar follow in the West Bank? You'd be halfway there. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-24-2004, 03:36 PM	#11
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	IMO the peace would last exactly long enough for the world to drink one glass of champaigne/sparkling cider before someone looked at another crosseyed and the shooting began again. some of the people involved have defined themselves in their militance. some people would rather stay in a state of war than have to redefine their role in life. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-24-2004, 03:40 PM	#12
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	But of course but that applies to most of today's comflicts, there are always wackjobs and extremists but as long as they exist on the fringes they're not a big issue. This kind of defusion takes generations to complete but the seeds are the important thing. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-24-2004, 03:43 PM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i agree, all humanity is like that. that is why i don't believe world peace is achievable. if you put 5 people into a house they will pair off into at least 2 sides and there will be conflict. amplify that to a global scale and you have planet earth. that is not to say that peace isn't a noble goal to strive for. it is and we should. i just dont' believe it is achievable. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-24-2004, 03:50 PM	#14
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	world peace? hell no. But a situation that doesn't involve civvies getting nailbombed and apache choppers firing missles into crowded suburbs? Yea. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-24-2004, 04:13 PM	#15
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	but jag - think of the children. what would lead the evening news in this new world of yours? parents may not have anything to watch and may resort to speaking with their children. dammit man - i implore you, think of the children __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

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