We need math

Undertoad · 05-28-2005, 10:34 AM

Partly inspired by the busterb thread.

"Why do I need to study math," everyone always says, "I'm never going to use it."

I realized the other day that, quite often, I think in the language of mathematics. I think there is a great advantage in being able to do so. This despite the fact that I was a terrible math student. Only now do I realize why I should have worked a little bit harder at it.

Equations - a gut-level understanding, "common sense math", of how they work out is critical. For example, if you buy a car, you face down a very straight-forward equation involving at least the values: interest, monthly amount paid, quoted price. Often there are even more values. You can look for a financing calculator to run the equation, but if you understand how equations work in general, you're better off. And these kinds of equations are found all over personal finance.

How this works on X-Y graphs is something I always think about. In economics, for example, this graph usually winds up being the supply curve, the rules of which pretty much explain why everything costs what it does.

Probability is all over the place. Sometimes it's obvious, such as seeing probability in gambling or games or sports. Sometimes it's in health, or behavior, as in determining what is risky for you. It's always around in business. And in all these cases, an understanding of statistics usually comes into play as well.

Geometry - a realtor once told me he couldn't believe how many realtors were unable to figure out basic square footage. That is unbelieveable to me.

busterb · 05-28-2005, 11:38 AM

[quote=Undertoad]Partly inspired by the busterb thread.

"Why do I need to study math," everyone always says, "I'm never going to use it."

Yep I was one of thoughs. Years later when a pipe fitter, I did things the hard way. Like draw the sob on floor. In the 80s I when to electronic school. When we tried to learn about phase angles, I learned more shit than ever. Because I could apply this to what I knew. I bought a Sharpe el-506a and the instrutor taught me to use it. Do tricks on job, hell yes. Angles, give them to me.
Boy I showed my ass in class, he would put an angle on blk.board that was simple, like a 45. All the "way" younger classmate would be hitting the calculators. I was the oldest AH there. I knew the answer from my work as pipe fitter.
But now my 506a has passed on, and the new ones have too many tricks for my old brain.
If I remember right, give me the angle and 1 side & I'll tell you the rest of story.
I have a book case full of books, on math, piping engineering, physics. geomerty, trig. Too bad I'm too stupid "maybe uneducated would be a better choice of words here." to understand most.
BECAUSE I was too hard headed to get the basics down while in school! My working years as a welder & pipe fitter would have been so much easer.
Nuff said. Tnxs UT.

busterb · 05-28-2005, 11:50 AM

BTW. At some time my GI bill was about to run out. So I took a course in civil engineering from ICS. They even sent me a slide rule. I was the super on job offshore and would get some collage kid to tutor me nights. But he got busted for grass on a shake down inspection. My work load got so big that I didn't have time to keep it up, and lost a wife along the way

Carbonated_Brains · 05-28-2005, 02:55 PM

You're lying. Engineers don't associate with girls.

Philosopher · 05-28-2005, 05:40 PM

If there was one mathematics subject I'd tell people to pay close attention to, and at least master the basics in, it would be probability.

Not only will it help you stay away from gambling at casinos, cause you'll know exactly WHY yer gonna lose, and how fast....but it really helps in just about any decision you'll ever make.

"Yeah, maybe it's possible that monkeys might fly out of my ass someday, but it ain't the way to bet." Unless you're Jim Carrey. And I STILL think that was done with mirrors.

Looking at most things in life as a "bell curve", really helps in planning for disasters. Keeps you realistic. Defeats the tendency towards an "all or nothing" personality. Which keeps you even-tempered.

Life and people don't surprise you disastrously as much, 'cause you had a sense of the odds going in. That sorta thing. It also explains exactly why the "80-20" rule is so important in being effective in your time management, for instance. Perfectionism kills.

It also teaches you that being 10% to 20% better at your job than your co-workers is good enough, and to devote the rest of your time to your family. (Although it's better that only your boss and HIS boss know this, rather than your co-workers, for social reasons.

)

I really can't stress enough how much the study of probabilty has exceeded ANY other branch of math in being of use to me. If they didn't teach it to you in high school, grab an introductory primer on it and read it. One of the best investments you'll ever make.

busterb · 05-28-2005, 05:53 PM

Just to show the laws of probabilty, when I was working in CA. They changed the odds of the lottery, Hell it only went from something like 49 to 51. Someone from CA. can correct me on that., But if you do the math on that, right only 2 numbers. So ok. So just punch it in & see what math will tell you, about the odds of winning crap.

Carbonated_Brains · 05-28-2005, 11:46 AM

Just wait until you run into mathematical models that don't exist in real life...Dirac Delta functions that have infinite height and zero width, multidimensional theoretical algebra...

But, if you like classical music, you can learn to love math ;-)

Clodfobble · 05-28-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Numbers such as the sharp increase in global warming in only the last 100 years.

Good thing we're not hyping a linear projection where none applies.

busterb · 05-28-2005, 09:08 PM

Damn good thing that no one is even close to "what" I think UT's post was about. IMHO

xoxoxoBruce · 05-28-2005, 09:20 PM

Nothing new, Buster. We hardly ever have linear threads either.

busterb · 05-28-2005, 09:30 PM

10-4

elSicomoro · 05-29-2005, 01:54 AM

I used my Calculus skills not too long ago...if I could only remember what for. And that was the most useless math class I ever took...or so I thought.

Gwennie! · 05-29-2005, 03:34 AM

Remember that 63% of all statistics quoted in online forums are made up on the fly.

Philosopher · 05-29-2005, 04:04 AM

Who let the skank out of the closet again?!?!?!

Katkeeper · 05-29-2005, 05:03 AM

I just have to point out that UT, the "terrible math student", got 1520 in the math half of his SAT's.

05-28-2005, 10:34 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	We need math Partly inspired by the busterb thread. "Why do I need to study math," everyone always says, "I'm never going to use it." I realized the other day that, quite often, I think in the language of mathematics. I think there is a great advantage in being able to do so. This despite the fact that I was a terrible math student. Only now do I realize why I should have worked a little bit harder at it. Equations - a gut-level understanding, "common sense math", of how they work out is critical. For example, if you buy a car, you face down a very straight-forward equation involving at least the values: interest, monthly amount paid, quoted price. Often there are even more values. You can look for a financing calculator to run the equation, but if you understand how equations work in general, you're better off. And these kinds of equations are found all over personal finance. How this works on X-Y graphs is something I always think about. In economics, for example, this graph usually winds up being the supply curve, the rules of which pretty much explain why everything costs what it does. Probability is all over the place. Sometimes it's obvious, such as seeing probability in gambling or games or sports. Sometimes it's in health, or behavior, as in determining what is risky for you. It's always around in business. And in all these cases, an understanding of statistics usually comes into play as well. Geometry - a realtor once told me he couldn't believe how many realtors were unable to figure out basic square footage. That is unbelieveable to me.

05-28-2005, 11:38 AM	#2
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	[quote=Undertoad]Partly inspired by the busterb thread. "Why do I need to study math," everyone always says, "I'm never going to use it." Yep I was one of thoughs. Years later when a pipe fitter, I did things the hard way. Like draw the sob on floor. In the 80s I when to electronic school. When we tried to learn about phase angles, I learned more shit than ever. Because I could apply this to what I knew. I bought a Sharpe el-506a and the instrutor taught me to use it. Do tricks on job, hell yes. Angles, give them to me. Boy I showed my ass in class, he would put an angle on blk.board that was simple, like a 45. All the "way" younger classmate would be hitting the calculators. I was the oldest AH there. I knew the answer from my work as pipe fitter. But now my 506a has passed on, and the new ones have too many tricks for my old brain. If I remember right, give me the angle and 1 side & I'll tell you the rest of story. I have a book case full of books, on math, piping engineering, physics. geomerty, trig. Too bad I'm too stupid "maybe uneducated would be a better choice of words here." to understand most. BECAUSE I was too hard headed to get the basics down while in school! My working years as a welder & pipe fitter would have been so much easer. Nuff said. Tnxs UT. __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch. Last edited by busterb; 05-28-2005 at 02:19 PM. Reason: add

05-28-2005, 11:50 AM	#3
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	BTW. At some time my GI bill was about to run out. So I took a course in civil engineering from ICS. They even sent me a slide rule. I was the super on job offshore and would get some collage kid to tutor me nights. But he got busted for grass on a shake down inspection. My work load got so big that I didn't have time to keep it up, and lost a wife along the way __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

05-28-2005, 05:53 PM	#6
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	Just to show the laws of probabilty, when I was working in CA. They changed the odds of the lottery, Hell it only went from something like 49 to 51. Someone from CA. can correct me on that., But if you do the math on that, right only 2 numbers. So ok. So just punch it in & see what math will tell you, about the odds of winning crap. __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

05-28-2005, 09:08 PM	#9
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	Damn good thing that no one is even close to "what" I think UT's post was about. IMHO __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

05-28-2005, 02:55 PM	#4
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	You're lying. Engineers don't associate with girls.

05-28-2005, 05:40 PM	#5
Philosopher Philosopher Stone'd Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 18	If there was one mathematics subject I'd tell people to pay close attention to, and at least master the basics in, it would be probability. Not only will it help you stay away from gambling at casinos, cause you'll know exactly WHY yer gonna lose, and how fast....but it really helps in just about any decision you'll ever make. "Yeah, maybe it's possible that monkeys might fly out of my ass someday, but it ain't the way to bet." Unless you're Jim Carrey. And I STILL think that was done with mirrors. Looking at most things in life as a "bell curve", really helps in planning for disasters. Keeps you realistic. Defeats the tendency towards an "all or nothing" personality. Which keeps you even-tempered. Life and people don't surprise you disastrously as much, 'cause you had a sense of the odds going in. That sorta thing. It also explains exactly why the "80-20" rule is so important in being effective in your time management, for instance. Perfectionism kills. It also teaches you that being 10% to 20% better at your job than your co-workers is good enough, and to devote the rest of your time to your family. (Although it's better that only your boss and HIS boss know this, rather than your co-workers, for social reasons. ) I really can't stress enough how much the study of probabilty has exceeded ANY other branch of math in being of use to me. If they didn't teach it to you in high school, grab an introductory primer on it and read it. One of the best investments you'll ever make.

05-28-2005, 11:46 AM	#7
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	Just wait until you run into mathematical models that don't exist in real life...Dirac Delta functions that have infinite height and zero width, multidimensional theoretical algebra... But, if you like classical music, you can learn to love math ;-)

05-28-2005, 09:20 PM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Nothing new, Buster. We hardly ever have linear threads either. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-28-2005, 09:30 PM	#11
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	10-4 __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

05-29-2005, 01:54 AM	#12
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I used my Calculus skills not too long ago...if I could only remember what for. And that was the most useless math class I ever took...or so I thought.

05-29-2005, 03:34 AM	#13
Gwennie! Not Female at Birth Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim Posts: 166	Remember that 63% of all statistics quoted in online forums are made up on the fly. __________________ Only The Crumbliest Flakiest Gwennie!

05-29-2005, 04:04 AM	#14
Philosopher Philosopher Stone'd Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 18	Who let the skank out of the closet again?!?!?!

05-29-2005, 05:03 AM	#15
Katkeeper Hoodoo Guru Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg PA Posts: 296	I just have to point out that UT, the "terrible math student", got 1520 in the math half of his SAT's.

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