10/4/2005: Schizophrenic's carving becomes art

Undertoad · 10-04-2005, 08:24 AM

via We Make Money Not Art

Jeannot was a farmer in France in the 70s. He was schizophrenic, so much so that at one point he actually took potshots at his neighbors due to the voices in his head.

He lived with his mother, but his mother died - a natural death, we assume. Instead of burying her under the earth like one would normally do, he stuck her under the kitchen stairs. And then he moved next to the stairs and started carving up the floor.

'Religion has invented machines for commanding the brain of people and animals and with an invention for seeing our vision through the retina uses us to do ill (...) the church after using Hitler to kill the Jews wanted to invent a trial to take power (...) we Jean Paule are innocent we have neither killed nor destroyed nor hurt others it's religion that uses electronic machines to command the brain.'

After seven months he died of starvation, having apparently not et after his mom died. And now his carved rants are Paris' controversial new art exhibit.

Although art critics want the work to continue to be seen by a wide audience, Benoit Gallet, a spokesman for the company which owns Jeannot's Floorboards, said: "We intend to offer the work to the Hopital Sainte Anne, a psychiatric centre in Paris. We feel that placing the work in that environment will help fight against the stigmatisation of mental illness as people will want to go in and see it."

In my opinion: I think it's very important to understand why this carving was made, and what it says. But I don't think there's any room for interpretation. There's nothing astonishing about it, and definitely nothing profound. It's illness, plain and simple. Doesn't merit artistic exploration - it only merits scientific and medical exploration.

BigV · 10-04-2005, 09:45 AM

What makes it art?

I seriously doubt "art" was on the mind of the carver when it was made. Does the discovery or display make it so? If I were to sweep up the shards of glass or the gouge in the wall where it hit and broke and put it on display, would that be art? How could the physical evidence of mental illness be considered art? Or even the result of any other labor? I pruned some branches last weekend, is the brushpile art? The now squared off tree? What about some of the expository postings of mine you've all had the (mis)fortune to read? Art? I really doubt it, but then, what do I know about art?

smoothmoniker · 10-04-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

What makes it art?

Welcome to the post-modern quandry. Does intentionality matter? Does context? Does perception?

Art?

This?

What about this?

Or this?

What makes the difference?

wolf · 10-04-2005, 10:57 AM

That story is very unusual, even for crazy people.

Sad that nobody checked on him and fed him, though.

We get cases like that (without the floor carving ... just the not caring for self parts) every now and again.

mrnoodle · 10-04-2005, 12:15 PM

On one hand, art is whatever the viewer perceives it to be.

On the other hand, artists get too much credit -- I think most reaction to modern art doesn't come from the heart. I think people know what they're "supposed" to think about something, and play off each other's reactions and comments to form a consensus of opinion -- but the end consensus is rarely what one's initial reaction to a piece would be (i.e., "hey, that's just three stripes on a canvas")

It's the same mentality that made trucker hats come into fashion. No one thinks they look good, but people think everyone else thinks they look good. You think this mentality disappears just because someone starts sipping chardonnay and attending exhibits? If anything, it gets worse.

Elspode · 10-04-2005, 01:22 PM

Whenever schizophrenic stuff comes up around our house (and it does more often than one might think), we end up stuck at the whole "what is the nature of reality" thing.

Just because an individual's perceptions and interpretations thereof differ from everyone else's around him, does it necessarily follow that what the individual is experiencing isn't real? Maybe we just can't see/hear/experience what they do, and it actually *is* going on somewhere/sometime/somewhen?

Quantum physics + brain chemisty= Confused Old Hippie.

Elspode · 10-04-2005, 01:23 PM

Oh...and, just for the record...Art is whatever I say it is.

dar512 · 10-04-2005, 01:37 PM

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad"

Salvador Dali

dar512 · 10-04-2005, 01:42 PM

Oh, and one more opinion - I don't think it's art. Not to say that we don't want to look at it. I think it's more like looking at the result of a car crash. We look while our mind ponders what happened to cause such a thing.

Silent · 10-04-2005, 01:52 PM

Art is all about presentation.

It has been proven that dog shit can be art if presented the right way.
I don't know much about art, but I know what I like

BigV · 10-04-2005, 01:54 PM

That's a link about dog sh*t, right? Hey, look at me NOT clicking on that, like goat s e and t u bgirl. Who says I have poor impulse control?

Silent · 10-04-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

That's a link about dog sh*t, right? Hey, look at me NOT clicking on that, like goat s e and t u bgirl. Who says I have poor impulse control?

Yeah, but it's done tastefully....

Promenea · 10-04-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

That's a link about dog sh*t, right? Hey, look at me NOT clicking on that, like goat s e and t u bgirl. Who says I have poor impulse control?

Actually it is pretty good but it is more a political statement than art imo

xoxoxoBruce · 10-04-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Doesn't merit artistic exploration - it only merits scientific and medical exploration.

Doesn't merit artistic exploitation - it only merits scientific and medical exploration.

capnhowdy · 10-04-2005, 07:28 PM

It caught my eye and it held my attention briefly. If it had had been on the wall at a gallery I may have been in awe. Art , IMO, is way deeper than a visual perception. It is when one expresses feelings from their inner self. It intrigues. I can't help but wonder what the " artist" was thinking when he transfered the thoughts from his head to the floor. Obviously it was something he felt the need to share. I didn't share it but it did raise questions and points of interest in my mind as well as most of us. We felt it worthy of conversation and opinionated input as well as ....the big word..... CRITICISM.
Could it be that any statement that provokes criticism COULD be art?
Too much grey area in art to actually define it. I guess if you catch the wave you ride it enjoyably and if you don't, you just stand on the beach and look.
And anyway, "Crazy" people can be HIGHLY ARTISTIC. I am not highly learned in this area but I'm sure those who are would be at least in partial agreement .
It is very sad that he starved to death. Seems like SOMEONE would have given a f@#k. Sometimes the world is a cruel environment.

10-04-2005, 08:24 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	10/4/2005: Schizophrenic's carving becomes art via We Make Money Not Art Jeannot was a farmer in France in the 70s. He was schizophrenic, so much so that at one point he actually took potshots at his neighbors due to the voices in his head. He lived with his mother, but his mother died - a natural death, we assume. Instead of burying her under the earth like one would normally do, he stuck her under the kitchen stairs. And then he moved next to the stairs and started carving up the floor. 'Religion has invented machines for commanding the brain of people and animals and with an invention for seeing our vision through the retina uses us to do ill (...) the church after using Hitler to kill the Jews wanted to invent a trial to take power (...) we Jean Paule are innocent we have neither killed nor destroyed nor hurt others it's religion that uses electronic machines to command the brain.' After seven months he died of starvation, having apparently not et after his mom died. And now his carved rants are Paris' controversial new art exhibit. Although art critics want the work to continue to be seen by a wide audience, Benoit Gallet, a spokesman for the company which owns Jeannot's Floorboards, said: "We intend to offer the work to the Hopital Sainte Anne, a psychiatric centre in Paris. We feel that placing the work in that environment will help fight against the stigmatisation of mental illness as people will want to go in and see it." In my opinion: I think it's very important to understand why this carving was made, and what it says. But I don't think there's any room for interpretation. There's nothing astonishing about it, and definitely nothing profound. It's illness, plain and simple. Doesn't merit artistic exploration - it only merits scientific and medical exploration.

10-04-2005, 09:45 AM	#2
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	What makes it art? I seriously doubt "art" was on the mind of the carver when it was made. Does the discovery or display make it so? If I were to sweep up the shards of glass or the gouge in the wall where it hit and broke and put it on display, would that be art? How could the physical evidence of mental illness be considered art? Or even the result of any other labor? I pruned some branches last weekend, is the brushpile art? The now squared off tree? What about some of the expository postings of mine you've all had the (mis)fortune to read? Art? I really doubt it, but then, what do I know about art? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

10-04-2005, 10:57 AM	#4
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	That story is very unusual, even for crazy people. Sad that nobody checked on him and fed him, though. We get cases like that (without the floor carving ... just the not caring for self parts) every now and again. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-04-2005, 12:15 PM	#5
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	On one hand, art is whatever the viewer perceives it to be. On the other hand, artists get too much credit -- I think most reaction to modern art doesn't come from the heart. I think people know what they're "supposed" to think about something, and play off each other's reactions and comments to form a consensus of opinion -- but the end consensus is rarely what one's initial reaction to a piece would be (i.e., "hey, that's just three stripes on a canvas") It's the same mentality that made trucker hats come into fashion. No one thinks they look good, but people think everyone else thinks they look good. You think this mentality disappears just because someone starts sipping chardonnay and attending exhibits? If anything, it gets worse. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

10-04-2005, 01:22 PM	#6
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Whenever schizophrenic stuff comes up around our house (and it does more often than one might think), we end up stuck at the whole "what is the nature of reality" thing. Just because an individual's perceptions and interpretations thereof differ from everyone else's around him, does it necessarily follow that what the individual is experiencing isn't real? Maybe we just can't see/hear/experience what they do, and it actually is going on somewhere/sometime/somewhen? Quantum physics + brain chemisty= Confused Old Hippie. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

10-04-2005, 01:23 PM	#7
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Oh...and, just for the record...Art is whatever I say it is. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

10-04-2005, 01:37 PM	#8
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	"The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad" Salvador Dali __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

10-04-2005, 01:42 PM	#9
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	Oh, and one more opinion - I don't think it's art. Not to say that we don't want to look at it. I think it's more like looking at the result of a car crash. We look while our mind ponders what happened to cause such a thing. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

10-04-2005, 01:52 PM	#10
Silent Romanes Eunt Domus Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 702	Art is all about presentation. It has been proven that dog shit can be art if presented the right way. I don't know much about art, but I know what I like

10-04-2005, 01:54 PM	#11
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	That's a link about dog sh*t, right? Hey, look at me NOT clicking on that, like goat s e and t u bgirl. Who says I have poor impulse control? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

10-04-2005, 07:28 PM	#15
capnhowdy Blatantly Homosapien Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 6,200	It caught my eye and it held my attention briefly. If it had had been on the wall at a gallery I may have been in awe. Art , IMO, is way deeper than a visual perception. It is when one expresses feelings from their inner self. It intrigues. I can't help but wonder what the " artist" was thinking when he transfered the thoughts from his head to the floor. Obviously it was something he felt the need to share. I didn't share it but it did raise questions and points of interest in my mind as well as most of us. We felt it worthy of conversation and opinionated input as well as ....the big word..... CRITICISM. Could it be that any statement that provokes criticism COULD be art? Too much grey area in art to actually define it. I guess if you catch the wave you ride it enjoyably and if you don't, you just stand on the beach and look. And anyway, "Crazy" people can be HIGHLY ARTISTIC. I am not highly learned in this area but I'm sure those who are would be at least in partial agreement . It is very sad that he starved to death. Seems like SOMEONE would have given a f@#k. Sometimes the world is a cruel environment. __________________ Please type slowly. I can't read very fast............... and no holy water, please.

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