Death on the Tracks

tw · 03-26-2005, 02:41 PM

The NY Times did a long series on how railroad routinely failed to protect the public at rail crossing; then used legal games to deny responsibility. Hundreds have died where railroads (most often cited is Union Pacific) did nothing to fix defective crossings. The NY Times series was: Death on the Tracks

Testimony used to deny compensation to hundreds of victims in TX was from a man who now admits he was outrightly lying.

Quote:

Texas Official Admits Missteps That Helped Railroads in Suits
At the behest of the rail industry, Mr. Kosmak on about 100 occasions over the last 11 years signed sworn statements about warning signs at railroad crossings, according to court testimony. The affidavits were mostly drafted by the rail industry, which then used them in case after case as a critical defense against claims that unsafe crossings had caused deaths and serious injury, court records show.

But now, the truth of those affidavits is being called into question. According to his court testimony, Mr. Kosmak recently admitted that his sworn statements misrepresented - unintentionally, he says - what he knew about those crossings. ...

When the program began in 1977, Mr. Kosmak said, he was a teenager in high school. "Obviously," he added, "I was not working at Txdot when some of the stuff included in my affidavit was actually performed." He said he had not understood the legal definition of personal knowledge."

So its not his fault that he was lying? Another posted:

Quote:

... there still comes a point when a person has to choose. They must be made to take responsibility for their actions.

But this was in TX where big means legal.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-27-2005, 09:54 PM

I'm sure the Railroads, slimy bastards they've always been, are guilty of many transgressions worse than this. I mean this is just trying to cover up after the fact. I'm sure they have, with greed and forethought, jeopardized and even killed innocent people.
But that being said, I've seen people do really stupid things around trains. It's gotten so people can't be trusted to watch out for themselves and their loved ones.
Ever notice on the interstate highways, anything out of the ordinary will have frequent warning signs for miles ahead. Do you have to be warned every 500 ft, for 2 miles, that they removed a section of guardrail or there's no shoulder? Do you bounce your car off the guardrail every so often, just because? Do you normally pull over on the shoulder without looking first?
Do you cross railroad tracks without at least a cursory check for trains? I know trains sometimes travel very fast and some crossings are very difficult to scope out but.......Damn!

Nightsong · 04-06-2005, 01:38 PM

I agree with xobruce. I think that trains are still a source of proving Darwin correct. If you cant see, hear feel a train coming then you need out of the gene pool. If you are too stupid to resect the size of the train(this goes for tractor trailers too.) then your out. A friends father from Oklahoma once told me the story while he was a cop of an old lady who was hit crossing a track with no gaurd rails. When asked if she saw the train she replied "Yes but I was at the tracks first. He saw me, he could have stopped." Some people have no understanding of basic physics. He officer resisted the urge to shot her BTW.

breakingnews · 04-06-2005, 02:34 PM

On a side note, the NY Times yesterday won a Pulitzer for public-service journalism for this series.

cowhead · 04-06-2005, 04:41 PM

as to the Darwinian thing, yes... that's why god made trains! oh wait.. or did god create the people who made the trains? who knows now adays around these parts it's hard to tell what's what.

no really, if you are too stupid not to look to see if a 400 ton vehicle is moving towards you and unable to deviate from it's path.. you deserve to die, hell! one hting I also don't understand.. when crossing the street.. look both ways.. simple eh? or get run over. OUT OF THE GENE POOL BOOGAN!!!

although I'm kinda rambling here, speaking of stupid things done with trains.. an old friend of mine and I used to put rimfire bullets on the train tracks. one day we upgraded to shotgun shells, well... suffice to say along comes the train, runs over the shells, they go off.. apparently loudly enough for the driver to hear it.. well.. then something I never ever thought would happen did.. they stopped the train to try to find us.. needless to say we bolted into the woods and ran home scared shitless

Clodfobble · 04-06-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowhead

OUT OF THE GENE POOL BOOGAN!!!

What's a boogan?

Troubleshooter · 04-06-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowhead

...speaking of stupid things done with trains.. an old friend of mine and I used to put rimfire bullets on the train tracks. one day we upgraded to shotgun shells, well... suffice to say along comes the train, runs over the shells, they go off.. apparently loudly enough for the driver to hear it.. well.. then something I never ever thought would happen did.. they stopped the train to try to find us.. needless to say we bolted into the woods and ran home scared shitless

They use a signal device on the tracks that is packed with powder that can be clamped to the tracks as a marker of sorts. It, like the shotgun shell, is loud enough to hear in the engine. That's probably why they stopped.

We used to strap the signals to the head of a large bold and a long streamer to the other end and launch them as far as we could. Satisfyingly loud, but damn dangerous.

cowhead · 04-06-2005, 05:31 PM

what's a boogan.. hmmm that's kind of a tricky question.. regional dialect. more or less it's a step below white trash.. somewhere I had a system to catagorize the classes and handy 'earmarks' for them I'll dig in the computer and see if I can find them.. (I love and hate the huge ass hard drives.. and my poor ass brain forgets what I call things when I write them down)

Tonchi · 04-06-2005, 05:34 PM

While working with the Southern Pacific in San Francisco (didn't get hired as an engineer, they discovered the scoliosis) I learned that entirely too many children end up under a train because they or the parents who aren't watching them aren't up on physics. That fun passtime of standing beside the tracks on the comuter/Amtrac lines to wave at a train turns deadly because an engine surging along at as much as 80mph creates a suction that plucks a little body right off the ground and sucks it under the wheels. I can only imagine how many engineers have had to debate standing the train on its nose to avoid a little kid he can see by the tracks up ahead. And of course the parents will sue the railroad for "negligence".

BigV · 04-07-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowhead

what's a boogan.. hmmm that's kind of a tricky question.. regional dialect. more or less it's a step below white trash.. somewhere I had a system to catagorize the classes and handy 'earmarks' for them I'll dig in the computer and see if I can find them.. (I love and hate the huge ass hard drives.. and my poor ass brain forgets what I call things when I write them down)

Two words: Google Desktop.

Griff · 04-07-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonchi

That fun passtime of standing beside the tracks on the comuter/Amtrac lines to wave at a train turns deadly because an engine surging along at as much as 80mph creates a suction that plucks a little body right off the ground and sucks it under the wheels.

Where is this land of decrepit railways can anybody go 80mph?

wolf · 04-08-2005, 02:01 AM

Here.

The old Metroliner would do 125mph ... although some of the track was rated for only about 100 mph, according to at least one train fancier website I checked.

Tonchi · 04-08-2005, 03:16 AM

Wolf's right about the Metroliner, hard to imagine but they really could pull amazing speeds out of several stretches of the track. The Southern Pacific between Yuma and Tucson runs at 80-100mph always, they outrace cars on the Interstate running parallel. But the ones I was warned about are between San Jose and San Francisco, several 8-year-olds were killed this way while I was working in the area. I'm a railroad nut, fascinated by trains since I was a little kid, but fortunately was never around anything faster than spur lines to the tobacco warehouses until I was told by the engineers how dangerous it could be. You'd also be amazed how many kids manage to get themselves out in the middle of a trestle on the one and only time in the entire day that a train is coming. People always want to blame the trains, never the kid who was where he had no business being

03-27-2005, 09:54 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I'm sure the Railroads, slimy bastards they've always been, are guilty of many transgressions worse than this. I mean this is just trying to cover up after the fact. I'm sure they have, with greed and forethought, jeopardized and even killed innocent people. But that being said, I've seen people do really stupid things around trains. It's gotten so people can't be trusted to watch out for themselves and their loved ones. Ever notice on the interstate highways, anything out of the ordinary will have frequent warning signs for miles ahead. Do you have to be warned every 500 ft, for 2 miles, that they removed a section of guardrail or there's no shoulder? Do you bounce your car off the guardrail every so often, just because? Do you normally pull over on the shoulder without looking first? Do you cross railroad tracks without at least a cursory check for trains? I know trains sometimes travel very fast and some crossings are very difficult to scope out but.......Damn! __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-06-2005, 02:34 PM	#4
breakingnews Q_Q Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere in between Posts: 995	On a side note, the NY Times yesterday won a Pulitzer for public-service journalism for this series. __________________ Gone crazy, be back never.

04-06-2005, 04:41 PM	#5
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	as to the Darwinian thing, yes... that's why god made trains! oh wait.. or did god create the people who made the trains? who knows now adays around these parts it's hard to tell what's what. no really, if you are too stupid not to look to see if a 400 ton vehicle is moving towards you and unable to deviate from it's path.. you deserve to die, hell! one hting I also don't understand.. when crossing the street.. look both ways.. simple eh? or get run over. OUT OF THE GENE POOL BOOGAN!!! although I'm kinda rambling here, speaking of stupid things done with trains.. an old friend of mine and I used to put rimfire bullets on the train tracks. one day we upgraded to shotgun shells, well... suffice to say along comes the train, runs over the shells, they go off.. apparently loudly enough for the driver to hear it.. well.. then something I never ever thought would happen did.. they stopped the train to try to find us.. needless to say we bolted into the woods and ran home scared shitless __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

04-06-2005, 05:31 PM	#8
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	what's a boogan.. hmmm that's kind of a tricky question.. regional dialect. more or less it's a step below white trash.. somewhere I had a system to catagorize the classes and handy 'earmarks' for them I'll dig in the computer and see if I can find them.. (I love and hate the huge ass hard drives.. and my poor ass brain forgets what I call things when I write them down) __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

04-06-2005, 05:34 PM	#9
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	While working with the Southern Pacific in San Francisco (didn't get hired as an engineer, they discovered the scoliosis) I learned that entirely too many children end up under a train because they or the parents who aren't watching them aren't up on physics. That fun passtime of standing beside the tracks on the comuter/Amtrac lines to wave at a train turns deadly because an engine surging along at as much as 80mph creates a suction that plucks a little body right off the ground and sucks it under the wheels. I can only imagine how many engineers have had to debate standing the train on its nose to avoid a little kid he can see by the tracks up ahead. And of course the parents will sue the railroad for "negligence". __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

04-06-2005, 01:38 PM	#3
Nightsong Wang Dude Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 177	I agree with xobruce. I think that trains are still a source of proving Darwin correct. If you cant see, hear feel a train coming then you need out of the gene pool. If you are too stupid to resect the size of the train(this goes for tractor trailers too.) then your out. A friends father from Oklahoma once told me the story while he was a cop of an old lady who was hit crossing a track with no gaurd rails. When asked if she saw the train she replied "Yes but I was at the tracks first. He saw me, he could have stopped." Some people have no understanding of basic physics. He officer resisted the urge to shot her BTW.

04-08-2005, 02:01 AM	#12
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Here. The old Metroliner would do 125mph ... although some of the track was rated for only about 100 mph, according to at least one train fancier website I checked. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis Last edited by wolf; 04-08-2005 at 02:06 AM.

04-08-2005, 03:16 AM	#13
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	Wolf's right about the Metroliner, hard to imagine but they really could pull amazing speeds out of several stretches of the track. The Southern Pacific between Yuma and Tucson runs at 80-100mph always, they outrace cars on the Interstate running parallel. But the ones I was warned about are between San Jose and San Francisco, several 8-year-olds were killed this way while I was working in the area. I'm a railroad nut, fascinated by trains since I was a little kid, but fortunately was never around anything faster than spur lines to the tobacco warehouses until I was told by the engineers how dangerous it could be. You'd also be amazed how many kids manage to get themselves out in the middle of a trestle on the one and only time in the entire day that a train is coming. People always want to blame the trains, never the kid who was where he had no business being __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

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