04/28/03: The Cult-like Mindset - Page 2

xoxoxoBruce · 04-29-2003, 07:16 AM

Quote:

At what point is one a loner?

I'm, sorry. I was thinking of normal people. I should have realized the cellar in not the appropriate venue. My mistake;)

Whit · 04-29-2003, 10:05 AM

     No, dude, it's cool. I think your point about people being social creatures is pretty valid. I just wondered where you were going with the loner thing.
     And yes, the sense of 'belonging' that a cult can provide is obviously quite powerful.
     Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder if there's a connection between people that don't really need that feeling of belonging and loners? I say this because while I'm mildly social, even though my friends bitch that I only show up if I'm specificaly invited, belonging has never been a big thing for me. I especialy hate formal groups of any sort. They always want me to talk to people about the group or lead something or another. Why the hell would I want to do that when I could be happily eating a pizza, watching a movie, playing a game or BSing with a friend? Sorry, I was using myself as an example and went off a little...
     Still, I think the point is interesting. And even somewhat connected to the topic...

xoxoxoBruce · 04-29-2003, 04:23 PM

I share your dislike of formal groups. You mentioned friends a couple times in your post. You seem to prefer when and where you interact with them. That's a far cry from what I would consider a loner that won't or can't have friends at all. I would say your nearer the middle of the spectrum. xoxoxoBruce now practices his duck and cover drill from grammer school...;-))

Whit · 04-30-2003, 05:55 PM

So, where do things stand on this thread?
1. You have the answers
2. Opposition aka "The Other"
3. Family or group togetherness, making followers feel a part of something.

Is this accurate then? Does everyone agree on these? Can anyone think of any more?

wolf · 05-01-2003, 10:30 AM

Abdicating any control or sense of control on the part of the follower is a more comforting and seductive aspect of cult joining than you might expect ... you don't have to make ANY decisions. The leader has made them for you.

(okay, so this is kind of an extension of the family thing, but to an extreme degree)

smoothmoniker · 05-01-2003, 02:27 PM

Maybe a refinement of Wolf's point.

In the parlance of "Philosophy of Religious Thought" the word for it is Fideism ... abjurning rational thought in favor of an irrational faith. Believing, contrary to evidences, that the person who is leading is right and true, and therefore has the authority to dictate anything and everything.

"Drink the Kool-Aid"
"The Celestial Comet is coming"
"Give us all your earthly posessions"
"Norah Jones is the new Ella Fitzgerald"

You see how this sort of thing can easily get out of hand.

-sm

perth · 05-01-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smoothmoniker
"Norah Jones is the new Ella Fitzgerald"

please tell me no one actually believes this. i dont think i could live in a world like that. :)

~james

elSicomoro · 05-01-2003, 03:14 PM

Let's see how her second record does. Everyone raved about Fiona Apple too, and her second record didn't fare so well. Where the fuck has she been?

(Don't get me wrong...I like Norah and all, but compared to Ella? Not even close...just remember, when you're happy, you listen to Ella. When you're sad, you listen to Billie.)

Whit · 05-01-2003, 06:22 PM

So, where do things stand on this thread?
1. You have the answers
2. Opposition aka "The Other"
3. Family or group togetherness, making followers feel a part of something.
4. The freedom to not think or make your own decisions.
5. Norah Jones is no Ella Fitzgerald.
I guess that sums it up then.

Griff · 05-02-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
... When you're sad, you listen to Billie.)

I caught an interview with Oscar Peterson, man Billie was a sad case. He was descibing this gig they did where Billie brought down the house in the first set and the band was feeling pretty pumped up. Then they tried to start the second set. They repeated the intro five or six times but Billie had gotten a fix between sets and she just stood there. Oscar said he promised his Mom he wouldn't do any drugs, it stood him well even though not using in jazz circles was considered a pretty quaint idea.

elSicomoro · 05-02-2003, 12:38 PM

Billie Holliday lived an incredibly short and tragic life...hooker, singer, junkie, etc. "Strange Fruit" is easily one of jazz's greatest and most disturbing tunes.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-02-2003, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Billie Holliday lived an incredibly short and tragic life

Like Janis Joplin. Now before you get your panties in a bunch, I'm not comparing talent just tragic lives.

elSicomoro · 05-02-2003, 04:41 PM

Who would get riled over that? Both were incredibly talented.

perth · 05-02-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
Who would get riled over that? Both were incredibly talented.

i think janis was a very talented songwriter, but i (personally) cant stand her voice. billie, on the other hand, had both. but thats just me. ive known a lot of people who love joplins voice. its kind of like a cult (see? ontopic).

~james

Whit · 05-02-2003, 04:59 PM

In our cult-mindset search it seems we have come across a small group of the native wild life. It would appear they are fervently discussing what many people would call, "Old people music."
Let's see if we can get a closer look. Careful now, some of these specimens have been known to flame...

04-29-2003, 10:05 AM	#17
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	No, dude, it's cool. I think your point about people being social creatures is pretty valid. I just wondered where you were going with the loner thing. And yes, the sense of 'belonging' that a cult can provide is obviously quite powerful. Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder if there's a connection between people that don't really need that feeling of belonging and loners? I say this because while I'm mildly social, even though my friends bitch that I only show up if I'm specificaly invited, belonging has never been a big thing for me. I especialy hate formal groups of any sort. They always want me to talk to people about the group or lead something or another. Why the hell would I want to do that when I could be happily eating a pizza, watching a movie, playing a game or BSing with a friend? Sorry, I was using myself as an example and went off a little... Still, I think the point is interesting. And even somewhat connected to the topic... __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

04-29-2003, 04:23 PM	#18
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I share your dislike of formal groups. You mentioned friends a couple times in your post. You seem to prefer when and where you interact with them. That's a far cry from what I would consider a loner that won't or can't have friends at all. I would say your nearer the middle of the spectrum. xoxoxoBruce now practices his duck and cover drill from grammer school...;-)) __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-30-2003, 05:55 PM	#19
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	So, where do things stand on this thread? 1. You have the answers 2. Opposition aka "The Other" 3. Family or group togetherness, making followers feel a part of something. Is this accurate then? Does everyone agree on these? Can anyone think of any more? __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

05-01-2003, 10:30 AM	#20
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Abdicating any control or sense of control on the part of the follower is a more comforting and seductive aspect of cult joining than you might expect ... you don't have to make ANY decisions. The leader has made them for you. (okay, so this is kind of an extension of the family thing, but to an extreme degree) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

05-01-2003, 06:22 PM	#24
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	So, where do things stand on this thread? 1. You have the answers 2. Opposition aka "The Other" 3. Family or group togetherness, making followers feel a part of something. 4. The freedom to not think or make your own decisions. 5. Norah Jones is no Ella Fitzgerald. I guess that sums it up then. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

05-01-2003, 02:27 PM	#21
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	Maybe a refinement of Wolf's point. In the parlance of "Philosophy of Religious Thought" the word for it is Fideism ... abjurning rational thought in favor of an irrational faith. Believing, contrary to evidences, that the person who is leading is right and true, and therefore has the authority to dictate anything and everything. "Drink the Kool-Aid" "The Celestial Comet is coming" "Give us all your earthly posessions" "Norah Jones is the new Ella Fitzgerald" You see how this sort of thing can easily get out of hand. -sm

05-01-2003, 03:14 PM	#23
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Let's see how her second record does. Everyone raved about Fiona Apple too, and her second record didn't fare so well. Where the fuck has she been? (Don't get me wrong...I like Norah and all, but compared to Ella? Not even close...just remember, when you're happy, you listen to Ella. When you're sad, you listen to Billie.)

05-02-2003, 12:38 PM	#26
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Billie Holliday lived an incredibly short and tragic life...hooker, singer, junkie, etc. "Strange Fruit" is easily one of jazz's greatest and most disturbing tunes.

05-02-2003, 04:41 PM	#28
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Who would get riled over that? Both were incredibly talented.

05-02-2003, 04:59 PM	#30
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	In our cult-mindset search it seems we have come across a small group of the native wild life. It would appear they are fervently discussing what many people would call, "Old people music." Let's see if we can get a closer look. Careful now, some of these specimens have been known to flame... __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

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