Suicide

xoxoxoBruce · 06-10-2003, 10:07 PM

Should suicide be legal?
Should assisted suicide be legal?
What about when the person has fatal disease?
How about as an option to life in prison or institutionalization?

wolf · 06-10-2003, 10:13 PM

That's a trick question.

Suicide isn't illegal to begin with.

Psychiatric commitment is a civil, not criminal process.

People don't receive any criminal charges for making attempts on their own lives that do not endanger others — for example murder-suicide, or attempts which directly endanger someone else, like cases in which the suicidal person attempts to set off a natural gas explosion and they live in an apartment or other multi-family dwelling.

BrianR · 06-11-2003, 11:04 AM

The law says that one may not assist OR ATTEMPT to commit suicide. Sucessful attempts are not criminal due to the obvious fact that the "criminal" is already dead.

An attempt that does not result in death becomes a civil matter at the order of a judge, who tends to get the case first. He sends the headache to YOU, and you get to prepare another rubber room. Or something like that.

Having counselled several people in much the same manner as that linked website from the other thread whose name escapes me at present, I know how it goes and what happens after. My experience is mostly limited to the terminally ill, true, but then again there was one old woman who had somehow gotten our phone number and called threatening suicide but who really just wanted someone to talk to.

I feel sorry for her and sometimes wonder whatever happened to her. Did she ever take my advice to go out and play Bingo or join a senior community center? I may never know.

Brian

russotto · 06-11-2003, 01:30 PM

Suicide? Ain't nobody's business but your own.

hot_pastrami · 06-11-2003, 01:51 PM

This question is as unanswerable as whether abortions should be legal. There are too many differing moral stances, too many possible circumstances.

There are times when suicide is a selfless act. For instance, a person who is only kept alive on life support, who has no quality of life and only downhill ahead of them... if such a person chooses to unburden their loved ones from the enormous medical bills, how is that wrong? The misery is over for the dying, the mountains of medical bills stop growing, and the loved ones are free to grieve.

As far as whether it should be allowed in circumsances where someone is healthy but suicidally unhappy, that's a tricky one. One might argue that the decision to live or die is the purest form of freedom. Just because most people have an overwhelming sense of self-preservation, does that mean that it is our place to try to impose such a tendency on those who lack it? Are we entitled to the right to choose our time of death?

Personally, I think suicide for medical reasons should be available legally. As far as suicide for personal reasons, only if it puts no other people in danger. From a moral standpoint though, I feel suicide is wrong outside of cases of terminally ill patients. But that's just me.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-11-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

This question is as unanswerable as whether abortions should be legal. There are too many differing moral stances, too many possible circumstances.

The question is not if you approve or not. Just whether the cops should interfere.
I don't care if a suicide bomber blows him/her self up as long as they don't take anyone else (or their property) with them. Others would stop the idiot if they could, on moral grounds.

hot_pastrami · 06-11-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
The question is not if you approve or not. Just whether the cops should interfere.

I think you misunderstand my point... the "unanswerable" question I refer to isn't whether or not I approve, but whether or not it should really be legal. Laws are supposed to reflect the values of the majority, but this question is so complex and there are so many very strong opinions about it that no matter which way the law goes, a lot of people will be unhappy about it. Hence my reference to laws concerning abortions... almost everybody feels very strongly about it one way or the other, and there is no satisfactory compromise. It is almost impossible to contruct effective laws about such things, because upholding the laws, whichever way they go, means pissing off half the population.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-11-2003, 06:32 PM

OK, I follow your reasoning. That being the case then shouldn't they make no law and leave it up to the indivdual. Or do you think that would still piss off the half of the population that love to impose their beliefs on everyone.

Jakeline · 06-11-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianR
The law says that one may not assist OR ATTEMPT to commit suicide. Sucessful attempts are not criminal due to the obvious fact that the "criminal" is already dead.

An attempt that does not result in death becomes a civil matter at the order of a judge, who tends to get the case first. He sends the headache to YOU, and you get to prepare another rubber room. Or something like that.

That isn't quite how it goes down in California. In here, they get you medical attention (obviously) then you are relegated to 72 hours of psychiatric observation. After the 72 hours, they will release you if they feel you are no longer a danger to yourself or others. As for it being a civil matter or a judge getting involved, according to the local police, that doesn't happen. Perhaps the laws are different out here on the left coast.

Yes, I believe people deserve to die the death they choose, however, under two conditions:

1) They harm no others (obviously)
2) They can fully appreciate the consiquences of their actions. I think that a lot of depressed people want to die on a very gut level, but can't see any further than their depression. Just my uneducated opinion.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-11-2003, 10:30 PM

Quote:

but can't see any further than their depression.

Believe me, there is nothing further than your depression. It's not like the flu. It totally consumes you and your life and it's not going to get better even if you understand what's happening.

Undertoad · 06-11-2003, 11:05 PM

xoxoxoBruce · 06-12-2003, 03:52 PM

I used to take Prozac but the Doctor took it away.
He said "Losers aren't supposed to be happy".

Righter · 07-03-2003, 07:01 PM

I'm just wholeheartedly curious as to when, how, or what exactly gives anyone else, besides the person that lives that life, the right to speak out to them, or at them. Freedom flows through my veins, so should it not be my right to take my life if I deem it unnecessary to mine own happiness? Such a plethora of dreadful prescribtions we all have for those that have to walk, to breath, to live, every single of their days, with themselves, by themselves, surrounded or otherwise. What gives us (you and i) that priviledge? Because we (yes you and i) claim the right to tell others exactly when we deem them a tad bit self destructive? Arent we all self destructive in some form or other? At some time or other? Mostly by accident, mostly by happenstance. Regardless of that I make no terrible claim to say I can understand anyone at all, barely myself on most rather lucid days. So then, how could I, even if its supposedly for the welfare of those that are not healthy, in mind, perhaps even in body? I decide my fate, and would hold it high in my heart, if i perhaps am given a choice in my own ending. Suicide? Hrmm, ask a buddhist.

Dude111 · 03-20-2017, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Suicide isn't illegal to begin with.

No well the cops dont know that!

They always try to stop someone from doing this..... WHY??

If someone doesnt wanna be on this hell hole anymore,WHY FORCE THEM TO STAY???

Its no ones business but thier own!!!!!!!!!!

captainhook455 · 03-20-2017, 07:22 AM

Seems to me that the well to do are the ones most likely to choose suicide. I don't hear about poor folks taking their life.

tarheel

View Poll Results: Should suicide be legal?
Yes	16	50.00%
No	3	9.38%
Sometimes	13	40.63%
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06-10-2003, 10:07 PM	#1
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Suicide Should suicide be legal? Should assisted suicide be legal? What about when the person has fatal disease? How about as an option to life in prison or institutionalization? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-10-2003, 10:13 PM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	That's a trick question. Suicide isn't illegal to begin with. Psychiatric commitment is a civil, not criminal process. People don't receive any criminal charges for making attempts on their own lives that do not endanger others — for example murder-suicide, or attempts which directly endanger someone else, like cases in which the suicidal person attempts to set off a natural gas explosion and they live in an apartment or other multi-family dwelling. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

06-11-2003, 11:04 AM	#3
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	only partially true wolf... The law says that one may not assist OR ATTEMPT to commit suicide. Sucessful attempts are not criminal due to the obvious fact that the "criminal" is already dead. An attempt that does not result in death becomes a civil matter at the order of a judge, who tends to get the case first. He sends the headache to YOU, and you get to prepare another rubber room. Or something like that. Having counselled several people in much the same manner as that linked website from the other thread whose name escapes me at present, I know how it goes and what happens after. My experience is mostly limited to the terminally ill, true, but then again there was one old woman who had somehow gotten our phone number and called threatening suicide but who really just wanted someone to talk to. I feel sorry for her and sometimes wonder whatever happened to her. Did she ever take my advice to go out and play Bingo or join a senior community center? I may never know. Brian __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

06-11-2003, 01:51 PM	#5
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	This question is as unanswerable as whether abortions should be legal. There are too many differing moral stances, too many possible circumstances. There are times when suicide is a selfless act. For instance, a person who is only kept alive on life support, who has no quality of life and only downhill ahead of them... if such a person chooses to unburden their loved ones from the enormous medical bills, how is that wrong? The misery is over for the dying, the mountains of medical bills stop growing, and the loved ones are free to grieve. As far as whether it should be allowed in circumsances where someone is healthy but suicidally unhappy, that's a tricky one. One might argue that the decision to live or die is the purest form of freedom. Just because most people have an overwhelming sense of self-preservation, does that mean that it is our place to try to impose such a tendency on those who lack it? Are we entitled to the right to choose our time of death? Personally, I think suicide for medical reasons should be available legally. As far as suicide for personal reasons, only if it puts no other people in danger. From a moral standpoint though, I feel suicide is wrong outside of cases of terminally ill patients. But that's just me. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

06-11-2003, 01:30 PM	#4
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Suicide? Ain't nobody's business but your own.

06-11-2003, 06:32 PM	#8
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	OK, I follow your reasoning. That being the case then shouldn't they make no law and leave it up to the indivdual. Or do you think that would still piss off the half of the population that love to impose their beliefs on everyone. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-11-2003, 11:05 PM	#11
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423

06-12-2003, 03:52 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I used to take Prozac but the Doctor took it away. He said "Losers aren't supposed to be happy". __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-03-2003, 07:01 PM	#13
Righter Neophyte-in-training Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3	I'm just wholeheartedly curious as to when, how, or what exactly gives anyone else, besides the person that lives that life, the right to speak out to them, or at them. Freedom flows through my veins, so should it not be my right to take my life if I deem it unnecessary to mine own happiness? Such a plethora of dreadful prescribtions we all have for those that have to walk, to breath, to live, every single of their days, with themselves, by themselves, surrounded or otherwise. What gives us (you and i) that priviledge? Because we (yes you and i) claim the right to tell others exactly when we deem them a tad bit self destructive? Arent we all self destructive in some form or other? At some time or other? Mostly by accident, mostly by happenstance. Regardless of that I make no terrible claim to say I can understand anyone at all, barely myself on most rather lucid days. So then, how could I, even if its supposedly for the welfare of those that are not healthy, in mind, perhaps even in body? I decide my fate, and would hold it high in my heart, if i perhaps am given a choice in my own ending. Suicide? Hrmm, ask a buddhist.

03-20-2017, 07:22 AM	#15
captainhook455 Rapscallion Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,357	Seems to me that the well to do are the ones most likely to choose suicide. I don't hear about poor folks taking their life. tarheel

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