The U.S. and Iraq = now fast friends. Britain and Iraq? Not so much

[Undertoad]

This is not about how you feel about the war, but about how Iraqis feel about it. Strangely nobody pays them much heed. But they are decidedly a part of the equation. What are Iraqis saying?

British Deal With al-Sadr Betrayed Iraqi People

Originally Posted by Iraq the Model blog

The news about a secret deal between the British and anti-American cleric Moqtada al-Sadr did not come as a surprise to us. Britain’s war policy has been clear for the past several years: the country demonstrated no readiness to make sustained efforts in a prolonged war, nor did it act as a serious partner determined to win the conflict.

What secret deal?

'Secret deal' with Iraqi militia kept British troops out of battle for Basra

Originally Posted by Daily Mail

Britain struck a 'secret deal' with an Iranian-backed militia which prevented UK forces from intervening in the bloody battle for Basra, it was claimed yesterday.

U.S. and Iraqi military chiefs suggested that British troops had failed to come to their aid for six days because of the 'accommodation'.

The claim came as a spokesman for the radical Mahdi Army, the main group opposing American forces in Iraq, confirmed that the militia's leader Moqtada al-Sadr wants to disarm and transform his organisation into a social movement.

Bitter street battles involving mortar fire, rockets and roadside bombs claimed the lives of about 60 Iraqi soldiers and an American marine in March during Operation Charge of the Knights, which ultimately resulted in militias being driven from the city.

Is it true? Don't know, it is a Mail story. But this is not a post about the facts; this is a post about Iraqi attitudes, which now turn away from the Brits. The Iraqis again:

Originally Posted by Iraq the Model

As residents of Basra for a year, we recall how the people perceived British troops. Basically people felt the British were both weak and largely indifferent to the situation. To the militias, that was seen as a golden chance to consolidate their power and take over the city; while among the ordinary people, it dealt a blow to morale and was a reason that people had little — if any — trust in the British.
...
If the British truly don’t see themselves as part of the war, it would’ve been better for everyone to have the British admit it and tell the Americans and Iraqis that they wanted out. Then we would’ve thanked them for what they did, gave them a nice send-off, and struck them off the list of reliable allies, just like Spain.

Bolding mine: it's what would have been the Iraqi opinion, if the Brits just left when the politics turned sour. By staying and losing resolve, and thus making it more of a mess, Britain and Iraq won't end up allies at all, nonetheless unreliable ones.

Being involved in the conflict and backing down = one step forward, two steps back, and the worst possible outcome for Britain.

[xoxoxoBruce]

What’s even more humiliating for Britain is that British leaders couldn’t exploit the advantages they had over their American counterparts in terms of past history of military operations and involvement in Iraq. It’s not an overstatement to say that the British had been fighting on their own turf in Basra. When they returned to that city in 2003, they returned to the very bases they had built only half a century before. Moreover, they had accumulated comprehensive knowledge of the people and tribes of the region that even many Iraqis don’t have.

A half century ago? Those guys would be 70 years old, and their officers are probably dead. What are the current Brits going to do, channel the old guard? Are there some secret diaries? The dynamics of Iraq, "a half century ago", is long gone.

"Accumulated comprehensive knowledge" is a joke, especially in the middle east. There are, floating around the web, pamphlets issued by the Brits and the US, as guides for servicemen interacting with various middle eastern populations. They are a fucking joke today and probably were then.

If the Iraqis had helped the Brits, Basra wouldn't have been taken over, but they would rather sit on their collective asses, like a mother-in-law bitching about not being taken care of.

[DanaC]

I must admit, I fail to see how special Britain's knowledge is after a half a century.

The secret deal? I have no idea. Very little would surprise me. I don't think there was ever as much support for the war over here as there was in the States. The country as a whole had little stomach for it and the political will wasn't really there. We sent our boys and girls to fight, but we barely equipped them. The emphasis amongst the politicos was on ensuring good relations with America, rather than on winning the war. Would have been better to stay out of it. Either that or invest more fully in it.

Believe it or not, in the midst of all this conflict, there are cuts to the military still. Different regiments consolidated into larger ones, but with an overall reduction in manpower.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Defence Secretary Des Browne emphatically denied the claims last night, saying: 'Our forces were not prevented from going into Basra by any deal of any sort.'
The Ministry of Defence insisted that the British role had been limited only by Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki.
Air Vice-Marshal Chris Nickols, Assistant Chief of Defence Staff, said: 'The only limit placed on the profile of our support was Mr Maliki’s rightful concern that the operation was seen by the people of Basrah to be Iraqi-led.'
No U.S. combat units deployed into Basra, he added.

So at this point, the "deal", is a denied allegation.

Yesterday the Wall Street Journal reported that al-Sadr will lay down arms and transform his organisation into a political, social, and spiritual movement. Details are to be announced at Friday prayers.

The US military was not holding its breath yesterday, as al-Sadr has called for ceasefires before - usually followed by an outbreak of violence.

But if the Mahdi Army were to disarm it would be a significant shift in the security situation in Iraq. As a militia it is the main group opposing US forces in Iraq, and as a Shia organisation it fuels much of the sectarian violence that threatens to catapult Iraq into civil war

It doesn't take a genius to figure out, if they cool it for awhile, the infidels will go home, then they can get back to business as usual.

[richlevy]

I think that what the British are hoping for is a transition from insurgent to political. Menachem Begin went from Irgun commander to Prime Minister of Israel. Ian Paisley (Unionist Party) and Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin/IRA) became the First and Deputy Prime Minister after the shooting finally stopped in 2006. Ghandi, while not a terrorist, still gave the British a lot of pain until he became the defacto leader of India in 1948.

This doesn't even count the treasonous rebels like John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, etc. After the guns were put away, they had pretty successful careers in politics.

Besides the armed militias, al-Sadr has a large popular base, in any unrigged election, this will translate into political power.

[Griff]

Yeah, the present Iraqi government is temporary. If we leave we won't be hand picking their leaders, then there might be an expression of the will of the Iraqi people. Using the present government as a measure of permanent relations seems out of line.

[classicman]

Bitter street battles involving mortar fire, rockets and roadside bombs claimed the lives of about 60 Iraqi soldiers and an American marine in March during Operation Charge of the Knights, which ultimately resulted in militias being driven from the city.

Air Vice-Marshal Chris Nickols, Assistant Chief of Defence Staff, said: 'The only limit placed on the profile of our support was Mr Maliki’s rightful concern that the operation was seen by the people of Basrah to be Iraqi-led.'
No U.S. combat units deployed into Basra, he added.

not sure those two statements jive - somebody is lying.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No U.S. combat units deployed into Basra, he added.

That's because you missed....

'U.S. troops did deploy temporarily to Basra, but these comprised those embedded in the Iraqi Army units moved there for the operation. To allege that British support for Charge of the Knights was hampered by a deal done with Shia militia is simply not true.

No combat units just coaches.

[Undertoad]

there might be an expression of the will of the Iraqi people

[Griff]

Nice picture here's another.

[TheMercenary]

General Petraeus hails SAS after Iraq success over al-Qaeda car bombers

The SAS has helped to defeat a murderous web of al-Qaeda car bombers in Baghdad that brought devastation to the capital, the top US commander in Iraq said yesterday as he heaped praise on the unit’s efforts.

General David Petraeus, who is due to leave his post in Iraq shortly, also dismissed the notion that American and British military relations had been strained by the recent offensive in Basra, emphasising that the problem of tackling militias in the southern port city had been rightfully Iraqi-led.

The four-star general, looking ahead to his next posting in charge of Central Command, said he would draw on lessons learnt from his four years in Iraq on how to fight an insurgency when tackling his new area of responsibility, which includes Afghanistan, Iran, Syria and Lebanon.

He said that Britain’s special forces in Iraq worked alongside their American counterparts on “many, many cases of very important operations.

“They have helped immensely in the Baghdad area, in particular, to take down the al-Qaeda car bomb networks and other al-Qaeda operations in Iraq’s capital city, so they have done a phenomenal job in that regard,” he told The Times in an interview at his office in Baghdad’s fortified green zone.

On one occasion, SAS troops rented a pink pickup truck, stripped off their body armour to blend in better with the local population, jumped behind the wheel and drove through the traffic to catch a key target.

“It was brilliant, actually,” General Petraeus said. “Who dares wins,” he said, quoting the SAS motto. “They have exceptional initiative, exceptional skill, exceptional courage and, I think, exceptional savvy. I can’t say enough about how impressive they are in thinking on their feet.”

The SAS has had at least two squadrons in Baghdad, operating alongside their American counterpart, Delta Force, and other elements of the American special forces.

continues:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4499952.ece