Have you fulfilled IT?

[lookout123]

********Well, I clicked the button before fixing my thread title********** dumdumdum. This started as a thread about parental expectations and changed to an expectation about college. Carry on.
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Was college an expectation growing up? Is it for your kids?

Growing up my parents always wanted me to go to college but they didn't pressure me. They required that I work hard so that I would be educated and eligible for college but they always left my path up to me. I chose the military so that I could pay for school and when I graduated I became the first person on my dad's side of the family to get a degree. (my sister was the second and last one to do so) My parents didn't dictate that college was necessary, only that it was necessary for some things that I might want to do. I always figured I'd go to school because it was the norm for my age group, but it just didn't rule my plans as it did for some of my friends. In hindsight I think my parents did the right thing by me.

Now I'm a dad and looking at Lil Lookout. He is too young to really give serious thought about what he might become but I'm a dad so I do it anyway. I don't really care what he does as long as he is happy and productive. College? Cool. Athletics? Cool. Military? Cool. Gay burlesque dancer? I hope not. At this point I can honestly say the kid has enough raw athletic talent he really could make a go of it in a number of sports. He is generally the best in any game he plays up to about three years older than his own age. Chances are he'll get bored and leave sports behind, but the raw material is there. He's also intelligent enough that he seems to pick up a wide variety of subjects with ease, except for math which causes him to convulse just as it always did for me.

My sister and I were talking about it and she was excited because he might be a good enough athlete to get a scholarship for soccer. I shrugged and said maybe, but then I pointed out that if he really was that good he would probably skip school and try his luck in the pros. She asked if I'd be ok with that and I told her I'd actually encourage it and help him along the way. If that doesn't work, then he can go to college. (Obviously completely hypothetical - he is only 7). She was absolutely appalled that I would be ok with that. We decided to agree to disagree as she believes everyone should go to college and get a degree.

I firmly believe that everyone who wants a degree or wants to work in an area where a degree is required should go to college. I do believe that everyone should prepare as if they were to go to college, so that it is their option when the time comes. I firmly believe that a person who chooses to go to college because they have seen some value in it for their own benefit is a far better student who is more likely to succeed and complete school with generally less time and money wasted. I see a lot of kids go off to school because that is what is expected and spend a few years partying and screwing off because they have nothing but their parents' money invested in the educational process. That just doesn't make sense to me.

What say you?

[Sundae]

I say this.

I firmly believe that a person who chooses to go to college because they have seen some value in it for their own benefit is a far better student who is more likely to succeed and complete school with generally less time and money wasted. I see a lot of kids go off to school because that is what is expected and spend a few years partying and screwing off because they have nothing but their parents' money invested in the educational process. That just doesn't make sense to me.

Oops, you already said it.

i am a firm believer in education being its own reward. Although I have a slightly dim view of teenagers clogging up universities getting degrees of little merit and raising the qualification levels for the average, intelligent, hard-working teen who chose not to saddle themself with debt for the sake of a piece of paper.

However, anyone interested in their subject, or needing to study to continue on a career path would get my full support.

In fact we always used to discuss lottery winnings when we were in our cups. One of the topics was charities or foundations set up in your name. Mine was a chain of clean and spacious Study Houses, where young women who were at Uni to staudy and not party could live and work in peace while being looked after by a housekeeper. I would wax quite lyrical about it

People have been very encouraging of my intention to get back into Higher Education. The assumption is that the habit of study is - again - a reward in itself. I think it is at my age and with a life to fit around it. I think sometimes Uni isn't demanding enough - I've known plenty of students breeze through, seemingly learning nothing about deadlines, forward planning or application of effort.

Then again, some of my favourite comedians met at Uni. I can forgive a few idiots with degrees in Sports Science and Town Planning if it means the possibility of great chemistry somewhere else.

[DanaC]

When I was at school there was just an assumption that I would go to college and then to university. What would have been far more sensible really, would have been to take a year or two out and get a job after school. As it was I went straight through to a sixth-form college, where I proceeded to fuck up my education prior to dropping out entirely.

My brother also went to college straight from school and left the course partway through. He wanted to be out in the world. I don't know if the same assumptions were made of him as they were of me. I was more inclined towards traditional academic subjects and was also six years younger. Attitudes towards and expectations of education went through a shift between the early 80s when he was finishing school and the late 80s when I was. I think the assumptions made of Our Kid were about going to art college because he was extremely talented, whereas the assumptions made about me was that I would go on to a red brick university and do a humanities degree.

I am so glad I dropped out. Not that it didn't make me miserable for years....but I'd have gone and done an English degree, and most likely come out with a barely respectable degree, having partied for three years.

I think for my brother's girls, the assumptions are similarly divided. Amelia (14 years old) is very, very clever, but she seems to have a strong desire to do things. She's quite purposeful in that way. She works as a volunteer at a cat rescue centre every Sunday and has carved herself a little niche there because she's good with animals. I think there is a general assumption that she'll probably go to college and do A'levels. I don't think anybody is making any assumptions about her as far as university is concerned. Not because she couldn't, or because it's not what our family does, but just because she will only do something if it really inspires her and seems to have some purpose and may well find herself a different route to wherever it is she decides to go. Soph on the other hand, I think we'd all be quite startled and a little disappointed (in that way grownups are when they see a talented youngster choose not to pursue that talent) if she didn't end up going all the way in education.

That said, I don't think that those assumptions are communicated particularly strongly to them. They have been brought up to know that their choices are their own and respected. They also are likely to have a slightly different view of education than some youngsters because they've seen their mother and their auntie return to education in their 30s (their mum finished a nursing degree two years ago); their Dad spent much of the early years of Amelia's life doing his NLP training; my friend J, who's always been close to the girls, is currently a full-time student and I think a couple of their mum's friends are at university as mature students. I think the girls see education as quite a wide and age-open thing.

[Undertoad]

I hated the classroom, there was just something in it I was allergic to. So I underachieved and went to a school probably below my abilities, and slacked and did the things I wanted to do like running the radio station, and got by and made a life of it.

Some people just aren't cut out for it. They can learn in other ways and succeed in other ways.

[Elspode]

I am a failure, even by the paltry standards of my family history.

In my next life, I'm going to just be a professional student. I would be good at that. Yeah.

Wanna know the ironic part? I decided not to go to college because I wanted to have lots of sex and party. Who knew?

[Tree Fae]

Been there and done that with education, I have a Master's Degree in Education which is pretty much worthless for anything else. Since I am a beginning level teacher I can't even get an interview most likely because they don't want to give master level pay for an beginning teacher.

[Aliantha]

I don't really care if my kids go to uni/college or not. If they know what they want and they're happy with it then that's good enough for me. Aden is just about to start high school next year and knows he wants to do something with animals. Maybe be a vet, or a wildlife officer. For either he'll probably have to go to uni, but if not, there are plenty of jobs he could do with animals without going to uni.

Mav is still very much undecided about what he wants, but I'm sure he'll think up something good. At the moment he mostly says he wants to do some kind of science (like his step dad) but that could very well change. He sometimes says he wants to be an environmental manager like Dazza, and at other times a marine biologist/scientist.

I think both of my boys have the brains to do whatever they like, and they also have the brains to decide how to go about it. As long as they're making reasonable decisions when the time comes we'll support them, and if they're making stupid decisions, we'll either kick their arses or make them get a job.

[DucksNuts]

Originally Posted by lookout123

~snippity snip~

Was college an expectation growing up? Is it for your kids?

Growing up my parents always wanted me to go to college but they didn't pressure me. They required that I work hard so that I would be educated and eligible for college but they always left my path up to me. I chose the military ~snip~

Ahhhh, this explains a lot.

[Ibby]

Have I fulfilled IT?
Hell, I fulfill it every day. Sometimes more than once!

Wait what are we talking about?

[DanaC]

Your Special Purpose?

[kerosene]

College was an expectation, growing up. It was expected for both my brother and I. Neither of us have managed to finish a degree, either. I have been to plenty of classes and declared many majors, but I never really got focused and just did it. When I worked for the large computer corp. I did complete an awful lot toward a CS degree, but when I left the job, I didn't feel the need, anymore. They paid for my classes, so I could not refuse. Sometimes I wish I had gone to an art school, or something, but then I realize that I probably didn't need it. I've got enough debt, anyway.

[Perry Winkle]

Timely thread. I've hated school since about 3rd grade, but because of parental and general societal pressure, I went all the way and graduated with a Bachelor's degree in CS in December 2006. That was despite dropping out of both high school and college for a semester each.

Last fall I came to England to get a Master's degree because I was convinced I didn't want to be a programmer anymore, which is what I've been doing professionally since '01. I figured I'd become a project manager or a management consultant (one of the good, non-sleazy, wonderful ones). During the course of the program it became apparent that my previous troubles with school are probably not figments of my slackitude; school really makes me sick. More than that, I found that programming is most definitely as close to a calling as I have.

So anyway, why did I call this thread timely? I'm about 3 weeks away from finishing, and my project is in shambles. Last night I decided to quit making myself ill. I'm not going to finish.

I am going to succeed anyway, on my own terms, doing things I like in the way I like to do them.

(Sorry if this is all jumbled. I'm still recovering from my stress-induced near-death.)

[lookout123]

take a deep breath, drink a couple pints. take another deep breath.

now go work on your project, not because you need a degree or someone expects you too, but just for yourself. You will have removed this educational monkey from your back in a very tangible way. you certainly won't regret it. Just three more weeks of agony for a lifetime of knowing you beat your own fears? priceless.

[HungLikeJesus]

I agree with lookout. You can put up with almost anything for three weeks. You already have, and for much longer.

[Shawnee123]

I was expected to go to college. I wanted to go to college. I was a great student in HS...good grades, sports, student council, class pres sophomore year. I loved it.

My parents didn't go to college and they wanted us to. My older brother went to a nice private school but he played football so I'm sure he got some financial help there. Then they sent him for his master's degree as he was graduate assistant coach. My brother is very smart, got good grades in college.

Was able to go to a smaller private school; looking back I would have done that much differently, probably would have gone to Ohio State if I had known better.

I just wasn't ready, emotionally. I made it through because I am a hell of a test taker, and was pretty good at writing papers. My heart wasn't in it, though. I think in these times schools (at least smaller ones like mine) are more in tune with student success and I may have received the help I needed to adjust. I went from a smallish HS (111 in my graduating class) to a smallish private college where it seemed everyone had money. I know that's not true but there was a huge proportion of students from families of means. My family did well, but not to the level I was seeing at college. I sort of just skated through, and I regret it. I felt like that fish out of water, and I didn't now how to deal with it.

I remember my sophomore year my dad was driving me back and I wanted so badly to tell him I didn't want to go. I mean, I'm really glad I finished and would not have THIS job (for what it's worth) without the BA but I think if I had waited, and had known where my real stengths lie I would have had a much better experience with much better results.

My mom's theory is that it came easy to me; my brother always studied so hard and I hardly studied. Perhaps it meant more to him.

My younger brother (8 years younger than I am; 10 years younger than the older one) started at college playing baseball but later told my parents it wasn't for him and to save their money. He is doing really well now, too. I was too scared to do the same thing, but little bro got the advantage of my parent's hindsight; he is also very level-headed (yes, unlike me) and probably made his case very well.

I do believe that no education is ever wasted; every part of that experience made me who I am today. Also, being a liberal arts college I was able to entertain my love of literature and find a new love of art...most of my electives were in those kinds of classes. I also worked in the college cafeteria which were some of the best times from college.

Now I think about getting a master's degree...but I hate school. I love to learn, I love to read, I love to research...but to actually go back to school...I don't know.