From a Chaplain who had served in Iraq - Page 2

Undertoad · 10-20-2008, 09:02 PM

Cic, everything you have and everything you hold dear, you can thank the military for.

Including the ignorance not to see that. It's a certain kind of luxury, that ignorance. You get to have it and still be defended.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-21-2008, 01:49 AM

So you stand at attention for the playing of the national anthem and if the anthem stops you stay at attention. When you shoot at the enemy and the enemy decides to quit and go home, do you keep shooting at empty space?

10-21-2008, 05:50 AM

No; but, I might start singing as those Marines did and with my voice I need all the auditorium practice I can get!

Yours was a false analogy. The national anthem was expected to be played again after the first time it stopped.

Cicero · 10-21-2008, 08:49 AM

You guys can screw off if you think that I was berating the military. Talk about ignorance of the military.....

I like the flying leap to conclusions here. The true ignorance.

Undertoad · 10-21-2008, 09:08 AM

Maybe you could do a better job of explaining yourself, instead of just shaking your head.

Cicero · 10-21-2008, 09:19 AM

I was indicating that I was done with this topic. Which is why you jumped in now isn't it? Screw it. I'm still done with this topic. Let me explain, that I don't care to explain myself to you. ok? I am done with this topic. I get to decide when I am done with something and there isn't anything you can do to change that. Why do I need to explain myself? Again? Do I have a written agreement somewhere to explain the inner-workings of my mind, and why I say anything I say? I am not allowed to just give up a conversation that I didn't like in the first place? Are you going to allocate the time I spend on it?

This is not a bone I am going to pick because I do not care enough. You don't get to decide that for me.

Undertoad · 10-21-2008, 10:36 AM

You don't have to explain yourself one bit -- unless you care about what the people think of you.

You seemed to care for a moment there, but now you've thrown this minor tantrum and it looks like you just want out of the thread without explaining yourself.

Cicero · 10-21-2008, 10:46 AM

Yea. Now I have no intention of "explaining myself" to you. Absolutely not. Anyone that can jump to conclusions about my so-called ignorance of the subject doesn't deserve any further explanations, due to the fact that they would obviously continue to jump to drastic conclusions, no matter what was explained.

We have entered the scenario of, "no explanation will serve". So why should I entertain that notion of an explanation, bound to fall on deaf ears?

xoxoxoBruce · 10-21-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBoxes

No; but, I might start singing as those Marines did and with my voice I need all the auditorium practice I can get!

Yours was a false analogy. The national anthem was expected to be played again after the first time it stopped.

That's an interesting statement. Expected to be played again, rather than pick up where it left off? Because if interrupted it doesn't count? Or the military way is to start over as many times as necessary to get it right?

Maybe they started singing because they knew they were going to be standing at attention until it was finished, and since the person playing the recording screwed up, twice, they would take matters into there own hands, to git r done.

The fact that they all joined in, if not together, very quickly, shows a like mind set, or at least the ability react to the unexpected in unison. However, saying they did it out of respect for the brave men and women that fought and died before them, might be stretching it a bit.

Sundae · 10-21-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

However, saying they did it out of respect for the brave men and women that fought and died before them, might be stretching it a bit.

That's my problem with it too. It's a song. I have very strong views about people who don't observe the two minutes silence. I will make sure it is observed on 11 November this year in the office, and I will make a big deal about it. I will wear my poppy as every year and I'll observe the two minutes silence on Rembrance Sunday as well (belts & braces approach)

But I can't equate a song - sung at sports games and in schools, in cinemas and concerts - with respect for the military. YMMV.

Undertoad · 10-21-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yea. Now I have no intention of "explaining myself" to you. Absolutely not.

Don't do it for my sake, do it for everybody who reads the thread.

Sundae · 10-21-2008, 11:45 AM

From the Snopes Forum, discussing the glurge "I am your flag"
Okay not the national anthem, but with a similar feel I think.

Pico and ME · 10-21-2008, 12:04 PM

Cicero, I think everyone knows what you meant in your post. I did and I didn't see any disrespect. Of course, you walk on dangerous territory whenever you step on someones poetically patriotic toes by being pragmatic, doncha know.

classicman · 10-21-2008, 12:30 PM

I really don't know what she meant. I may be the only one, but that is why I asked.

Cicero · 10-21-2008, 01:09 PM

Oh now I just saw how I've dishonored all the dead and living soldiers that someone knows because I called that a conditioned response.

Another conditioned response is to say that you have shat all over someone's valued memory when someone says something you don't agree with. That's low.

How does that grab you? Be pissed all you want. I haven't done a damb thing to dishonor you or the people you have known in the military.

Oh that's another thing:

In fact, I have actually helped, personally, one of the fellow soldiers you served with, in a variety of ways throughout the years. As he has helped me on several occasions as well. So. Stick it. The proof is in the pudding here.

Well, I have to admit, I did go a little far with his nick name a couple of times...

I have always respected him and his military action. Despite the illness that it caused. You are talking to the wrong person about the "dishonor" of your fellow soldiers, and yourself. If I hadn't had personal interactions with one of them for several years it might be a little different. Wrong girl.

And another thing: I didn't honor him just because of his service in the military, he was good friend because he was honorable outside of the military. He was a good guy.

Hmmm...maybe I won't call him flatfoot anymore.

10-21-2008, 01:49 AM	#17
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	So you stand at attention for the playing of the national anthem and if the anthem stops you stay at attention. When you shoot at the enemy and the enemy decides to quit and go home, do you keep shooting at empty space? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-21-2008, 08:49 AM	#19
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	You guys can screw off if you think that I was berating the military. Talk about ignorance of the military..... I like the flying leap to conclusions here. The true ignorance. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-21-2008, 09:19 AM	#21
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	I was indicating that I was done with this topic. Which is why you jumped in now isn't it? Screw it. I'm still done with this topic. Let me explain, that I don't care to explain myself to you. ok? I am done with this topic. I get to decide when I am done with something and there isn't anything you can do to change that. Why do I need to explain myself? Again? Do I have a written agreement somewhere to explain the inner-workings of my mind, and why I say anything I say? I am not allowed to just give up a conversation that I didn't like in the first place? Are you going to allocate the time I spend on it? This is not a bone I am going to pick because I do not care enough. You don't get to decide that for me. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-21-2008, 10:46 AM	#23
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Yea. Now I have no intention of "explaining myself" to you. Absolutely not. Anyone that can jump to conclusions about my so-called ignorance of the subject doesn't deserve any further explanations, due to the fact that they would obviously continue to jump to drastic conclusions, no matter what was explained. We have entered the scenario of, "no explanation will serve". So why should I entertain that notion of an explanation, bound to fall on deaf ears? __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-21-2008, 11:45 AM	#27
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	From the Snopes Forum, discussing the glurge "I am your flag" Okay not the national anthem, but with a similar feel I think. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-20-2008, 09:02 PM	#16
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Cic, everything you have and everything you hold dear, you can thank the military for. Including the ignorance not to see that. It's a certain kind of luxury, that ignorance. You get to have it and still be defended.

10-21-2008, 05:50 AM	#18
NoBoxes Guest Posts: n/a	No; but, I might start singing as those Marines did and with my voice I need all the auditorium practice I can get! Yours was a false analogy. The national anthem was expected to be played again after the first time it stopped.

10-21-2008, 09:08 AM	#20
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Maybe you could do a better job of explaining yourself, instead of just shaking your head.

10-21-2008, 10:36 AM	#22
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	You don't have to explain yourself one bit -- unless you care about what the people think of you. You seemed to care for a moment there, but now you've thrown this minor tantrum and it looks like you just want out of the thread without explaining yourself.

10-21-2008, 12:04 PM	#28
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	Cicero, I think everyone knows what you meant in your post. I did and I didn't see any disrespect. Of course, you walk on dangerous territory whenever you step on someones poetically patriotic toes by being pragmatic, doncha know.

10-21-2008, 12:30 PM	#29
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I really don't know what she meant. I may be the only one, but that is why I asked. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

10-21-2008, 01:09 PM	#30
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Oh now I just saw how I've dishonored all the dead and living soldiers that someone knows because I called that a conditioned response. Another conditioned response is to say that you have shat all over someone's valued memory when someone says something you don't agree with. That's low. How does that grab you? Be pissed all you want. I haven't done a damb thing to dishonor you or the people you have known in the military. Oh that's another thing: In fact, I have actually helped, personally, one of the fellow soldiers you served with, in a variety of ways throughout the years. As he has helped me on several occasions as well. So. Stick it. The proof is in the pudding here. Well, I have to admit, I did go a little far with his nick name a couple of times... I have always respected him and his military action. Despite the illness that it caused. You are talking to the wrong person about the "dishonor" of your fellow soldiers, and yourself. If I hadn't had personal interactions with one of them for several years it might be a little different. Wrong girl. And another thing: I didn't honor him just because of his service in the military, he was good friend because he was honorable outside of the military. He was a good guy. Hmmm...maybe I won't call him flatfoot anymore. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung Last edited by Cicero; 10-21-2008 at 01:22 PM.

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