Hot takes on the Democratic frontrunners

[Undertoad]

And anyway, Ngo's claim wasn't that his injuries were from quikrete milkshakes.

Ngo's claim was that his injuries were from fiberglass-reinforced tactical combat gloves.

It will be up to everyone to look at his skull bleeding from multiple locations to work out for yourselves whether that's true.

You could also watch the footage from the previous rally a few months earlier, where he was sprayed directly in the eyes and face with bear repellant.

None of the propagators of this violence have been charged or ever arrested.

Now apparently being against this sort of thing puts me on the "other side". :eyeroll: Appalling.

This is why I don't vote: I see the game y'all are enjoying so well, and I think it's the most horrible and dangerous thing I've ever seen in this culture. I will not be a direct part of that.

Well, whatever you do, don't think your opinions keep you safe from this violence visiting your house. That's not how the mob works. It only takes one person in the mob to turn on you, and the fiberglass-reinforced tactical combat gloves will be on your skull.

Your only defense, and you should be engaging that defense right now, is to be against the use of fiberglass-reinforced tactical combat gloves. Or plain old dairy milkshakes. Or ANY sort of violence. First and foremost. Don't make your first priority working out how somehow it's okay. It's not okay.

Join my tribe. In my tribe we love everyone. Especially our enemies.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

This is why I don't vote: I see the game y'all are enjoying so well, and I think it's the most horrible and dangerous thing I've ever seen in this culture. I will not be a direct part of that.

And this helps how?
When they came for the journalists I did nothing... you know the rest.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

… Ngo's claim was that his injuries were from fiberglass-reinforced tactical combat gloves.

It will be up to everyone to look at his skull bleeding from multiple locations to work out for yourselves whether that's true.

You could also watch the footage from the previous rally a few months earlier, where he was sprayed directly in the eyes and face with bear repellant.

Really! He couldn't wear a sports helmet and surplus gas mask while filming? These things are cheap and they work. I thought everyone knew that violent actors can infiltrate peaceful demonstrations to further their personal agendas. You make this guy sound stupid.

[Undertoad]

He was just filming them. It's not okay.

If you want to make it about sides, both "sides" brought stuff to shoot the other side. One side brought a camera.

If you want violent revolution, seriously, GFYS.

[Undertoad]

Treating all opposition as "they" is the far far far bigger problem.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yeah, I'll buy that, it makes dialog impossible.
But going to the polling place and standing outside singing Kumbaya is better than nothing.
If you don't vote they win, doesn't matter which they.
I think your position shows the advantage of living large which won't be changed by the outcome. We wring our hands and quiver with predictions of the end of civilization as we know it, when in truth we vote and go home to the same life regardless of who wins. Damn few are affected in the short term by the results, and short term is the concern of most Americans.
Would you stay home from the poll if one of the candidates swore to take away Katkeeper's Social Security and medicare?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Treating all opposition as "they" is the far far far bigger problem.

There are people who WANT a free republic and a libertarian social order, and there are those like Adam Schiff (D-CA) and James Comey, who DO NOT. These are people who have altogether forgotten the law. They palpably want us to forget the law too.

One is the enemy. Not labeled. Self-made, self-appointed. Also probably did not do well in high-school civics.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

There are people who WANT a free republic and a libertarian social order, and there are those like Adam Schiff (D-CA) and James Comey, who DO NOT. These are people who have altogether forgotten the law. They palpably want us to forget the law too.

One is the enemy. Not labeled. Self-made, self-appointed. Also probably did not do well in high-school civics.

The idea that this country is based on libertarianism was answered, by many of the same people that wrote the articles of confederation and the subsequent constitution, with the response to Shay's Rebellion.

[Undertoad]

Outcome won't change things: precisely;

And it's funny: no candidate would ever suggest touching Social Security and Medicare... in the time I've watched, they remain pretty untouched... but every election season I've paid attention to, the sides work out how to suggest the other side will fuck them up. It's all about the sides!

[xoxoxoBruce]

True, but the threat that people might vote keeps so much money moving and so many people employed it's good for the economy.

I know SS and Medicare are always a football but both them and us know the shitstorm that would result by fucking with either.
That's why I worded that to be a definite threat to Mom so would likely prompt you to action.

But today it doesn't matter, only your birthday matters, and you'll probably get laid tonight too. Woo Woo!

[Undertoad]

Sorry. Yes, if a candidate actually threatened either I would be motivated to actually vote against them.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

He was just filming them. It's not okay.

Sigh... Here is other footage from Andy Ngo himself, from before the fight started. In the first clip, starting around 2:24, the right wing folks he's hanging out with say they're trying to figure out which way the wind is blowing so that they don't accidentally pepper spray themselves. "Ha ha, that would suck," says Ngo. "I think... it's blowing that way."

In the second clip, starting at 3:41, he asks his compatriots, "And how long until Gibson gets here, and we have, like, some more numbers?" There's some crosstalk, and then another guy says, "Who's the guy with the weapon here? Me!" "That is some rad shit!," replies Ngo.



Fighting is bad. Injuries are bad. Weapons are bad. But Andy Ngo does not believe these things, and he is not on "your" side when it comes to nonviolence.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

None of the propagators of this violence have been charged or ever arrested.

Yes, they have. Three antifa folks were arrested in the Portland clash; Gage Halupowski plead guilty and was sentenced to six years in prison, James Stocks plead guilty and was sentenced to a year probation, and Maria DeHart plead not guilty and her trial is pending.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If you want violent revolution, seriously, GFYS.

I totally agree.

[Flint]

But we need Andy Ngo to be good, so that Antifa and everything they stand for is bad and we never have to talk about it again.

[Undertoad]

Here is other footage from Andy Ngo himself, from before the fight started. In the first clip, starting around 2:24, the right wing folks he's hanging out with say they're trying to figure out which way the wind is blowing so that they don't accidentally pepper spray themselves. "Ha ha, that would suck," says Ngo. "I think... it's blowing that way."

In the second clip, starting at 3:41, he asks his compatriots, "And how long until Gibson gets here, and we have, like, some more numbers?" There's some crosstalk, and then another guy says, "Who's the guy with the weapon here? Me!" "That is some rad shit!," replies Ngo.

No. The man filming, and saying what you say Andy Ngo said, is not Andy Ngo. Andy Ngo is the guy on his phone at the beginning of the clip.

The guy filming and speaking is an Antifa infiltrator of the right-wing group. He's the source for the Portland Mercury story.

The claim is that Andy Ngo overheard this discussion and didn't report it.

In the longer unedited video, it's pretty clear that Andy Ngo is *near* them a good bit of time. There's nothing in particular that makes it seem that he's *with* them. He's not directly involved in any discussions. You might say it's damning enough that he's near them for a good bit of time. He wasn't near them when he got attacked.

[Luce]

I am puzzled by the implication that antifa is an organization. It's not, at least not more than at a strictly local level. It's a set of beliefs. A motivation, rather than a group.