Anti-Semites? Who, Us?

[jaguar]

Welcome to Radar. Leave logic, reason and debate at the door. Radar is right. Everyone else is wrong, and stupid to boot. Don't waste your time trying to understand, water runs downhill, the sun rises in the east and radar is right and everyone else is stupid.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kreeck

I'm curious, since I'm new to these boards. How come you can't be against zionist policies and the vile, dictatorial administrations of some of the other middle eastern nations?

Don't misunderstand, Josh. You CAN be against anything you want...and for anything you want. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.
Hell, this group doesn't completely agree on anything. That's a good thing.
Oh...and welcome to the Cellar.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by mdease

So I take it the exile from Egypt, which brought the Israelis to the present day Israel, and led to the subsequent conquest of the surronding nations, isn't taking land from a different owner? What my point here is, who decided that the Israelis had the right to take the land away from the original settlers of that land? The land they currently occupied was settled by other people before they got there, they fought and killed them for
that land.

To discuss the issue based on the Old Testament requires a contextual basis. We have to know who was in the space we now call Israel to determine whether or not Moses' people "conquered" anything or simply came home.

Abraham had been born in Ur Kasdim in Mesopotamia (today's Iraq) then moved with his father to Haran (today's northern Syria/southern Turkey) and that is where he got the instruction to go to Canaan, the Promised Land, which will become the Land of Israel.

God said to Abram: "Go from your land ... to the land that I will show you." (Genesis 12:1)

This is a key statement and the promise is repeated several times.
For example:

On that day, God made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizites, Kadmonites; the Chitties, Perizites, Refaim; the Emorites, Canaanites, Gigashites and Yevusites." (Genesis 15:18-21)

"And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your temporary residence, all the land of Canaan as an eternal possession and I will be a God to them." (Genesis 17:8)

See map below for an idea of how big of an area "from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates" is.

If the Bible is a book of theology for the Jews, why not begin with the creation of the Jewish nation and go immediately to the story of Exodus. That's when the Jews become a nation, get the Torah, and go into the land.

And Rashi answers, quoting an ancient oral tradition that in the future, the nations of the world will say "you are thieves" to the Jewish people. You have stolen the land from the Canaanite tribes. So God begins the Bible here at the creation of the universe to tell the world: "I am the Creator of the Universe. Everything is mine. I choose to give the Land of Israel to the Jewish people."

CLAIMS OF CONQUEST

Every other nation in the world bases its claim to its land on conquest. A people came (for example, the English or the Spanish) conquered the indigenous people (for example, the Indians) took the land, settled it, and called it by a new name (for example, United States of America). "Might makes right" is the historical claim of almost all nations in history.

However, the Jewish people base their claim on God's promise. It is a moral claim because God is God and God is by definition truth, and God is by definition morality. God gave the Jewish people the Land of Israel. Without that, the only claim the modern State of Israel can make is it is stronger and was able to take the land from the Arabs.

This is a very important thing, and essential for the State of Israel -- which is not a religious state and often far removed from Jewish values -- to realize that the Bible gives the Jews a moral claim.

Indeed, the early founding fathers of the modern state, even if they were not religious, were deeply steeped in the realization of Biblical heritage of the Jewish people and their connection to the land. Ben Gurion had an appreciation of the necessity of anchoring a modern, even secular Israeli state in Judaism and Jewish tradition.

Before Sarah conceives God tells Abraham:

"Your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will name him Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an eternal covenant to his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael ... I have bless him and I will make him fruitful and will increase him exceedingly. He will become the father of twelve princes and I will make him into a great nation. But I will establish My covenant with Isaac who Sarah will bear to you at this time next year." (Genesis 17:19-21)

So Isaac is the person who will carry on the mission of Abraham, the mission of the Jews.

When Isaac is old, he decides to give each of his sons a blessing, and, of course, he wants to give an extra-special blessing to the first-born, Esau.

When a great man like an Isaac makes a blessing, that blessing affects spiritual forces and becomes a reality.

Although Esau doesn't really want the blessing of the first-born with all the responsibility to carry on his father's mission, he does want the blessing of wealth and power which goes along with it. But Rebecca realizes that the blessing has to go to Jacob as he is the one who is willing and able to change the world in the manner of Abraham.

So while Esau is off hunting to catch something for his father's dinner so he'll bless him, what does Rebecca do? She covers Jacob's arms with a goat skin so they will feel hairy like Esau's. And Isaac, who is blind, is fooled.

THE SYMBOLS

It's a mistake to read the Bible stories on a simplistic, first-grade Sunday school level. This is not the story of some old, blind man who's confused by his wife and son. There are very profound things going on here.

When Isaac encounters Jacob pretending to be Esau, he remarks:

"The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau." (Genesis 27:22)

This is because the voice symbolizes the power of the intellect, and the hands symbolize the power of action, of might and of sword.

Esau, who embodies the power of might and sword, will, through his descendants, give rise to the Roman Empire or "Edom" as the Bible calls it.

Now Rebecca, realizing that Esau's resentment will only grow until he going to want to kill his brother, sends Jacob away. She tells him to go to Haran where she tells Jacob to take a wife.

Jacob turns up penniless on his uncle's doorstep and falls in love with his cousin Rachel. He wants to marry her but Laban insists he work seven years for her hand. At the end of the seven years, Laban substitutes Rachel's older sister Leah and demands Jacob work another seven years to get Rachel. In the end, Jacob winds up with four wives -- Leah, Rachel, and their handmaidens Zilpah and Bilhah and he has 12 sons and 1 daughter.

Unlike previous generations, all the sons are going to be totally dedicated to the mission.

Jacob then realizes that he has to go back to the Land of Israel because he has a mission. Just as Abraham knew that this was the only place where Jewish potential could be realized, so too Jacob realizes that this is the only place to be. So he gathers up all his belongings and he heads back.

And then Jacob has Joseph.

To begin with, Joseph has a key position in the family as a result of his being the long-awaited first child of Jacob's favorite wife. His father seems to be showing him a considerable amount of favoritism -- he buys him a special coat -- and this engenders jealousy from his brothers.

They contemplate killing him, but instead they sell him into slavery. They take his fancy coat, smear it with goat's blood and present it to Jacob as if Joseph had been killed by a wild animal.

Then Joseph becomes Viceroy of the Pharoah, and the 7 years of plenty are follwed by 7 years of famine.

Meanwhile, the famine hits. And it doesn't just affect Egypt but the entire ancient Middle East, and Egypt -- thanks to Joseph's foresight -- is the only place that has storehouses of grain.

Jacob sends the brothers shopping. But he keeps Benjamin, Joseph's full brother and the only surviving child of his favorite wife Rachel, at home, because he does not want to risk losing him.

The brothers arrive to Egypt. They bow before the Viceroy, not realizing that this is their long-lost brother whom they had sold into slavery. After all, Joseph dresses like an Egyptian, walks like an Egyptian, talks like an Egyptian.

DIVINE PLAN

And then Joseph makes what is clearly one of the most significant statements in terms of understanding Jewish history:

"Now do not worry, and do not be angry with yourselves that you sold me here, for it was to preserve life that God sent me before you. For it is two years that there has been famine in the land; and for another five years there will be no plowing or harvest. God sent me here before you to insure your survival in the land to keep you alive for a great deliverance. It was not you that sent me here, but God and he made me as a father to Pharaoh and master of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt."(Genesis 45:5-8)

He [Joseph] sends word back to his father, and Jacob is overjoyed. He thought his son has been dead for all these years. And they have a dramatic reunion. All of Egypt comes out to see the Viceroy's family. And they are all bowing to Joseph in fulfillment of the prophecy.

Then the Pharaoh invites the whole family to come live in Egypt. And they do. The Bible says that 70 individuals entered Egypt consisting of Jacob, his 12 sons, their wives and children. The proto-Jewish nation arrived in Egypt.

So you can see that prior to the Jews arrival in Egypt, they were the ones who "occupied", farmed, shepherded, basically, "owned" the land outside of egypt, to the east.

To be continued....

[mdease]

Wow... Thats quite a bit of evidence. I wonder if Radar will read all that.

[OnyxCougar]

So Jacob and his family (70 people) move to Egypt.

Then the Pharaoh invites the whole family to come live in Egypt. And they do. The Bible says that 70 individuals entered Egypt consisting of Jacob, his 12 sons, their wives and children. The proto-Jewish nation arrived in Egypt.

Then Moses was born and 10 plagues strike Egypt. Pharoah lets Moses' people go, and they flee.

A NATION IS BORN

At Mount Sinai the Jewish people become a nation. Again, this is a unique event which says a lot about the Jewish people. What's so unique about it?

Well, consider how the French became "the French." Did they all wake up one morning to collectively decide they liked white wine and blue cheese and they were going to speak French? No. It was a long process. As with every other nation, this process involved a people living in a specific geographic area for an extended period of time and evolving a common language and a common culture born of a shared historical experience. Eventually, this people developed a political entity and government (with a king at its head) and they defined their boundaries, flew a flag, minted coins and called themselves France.

We become a nation under the most adverse conditions designed to erase any cultural or historical identity.

For Jews the process of becoming a nation started outside their national homeland -- in fact while in bondage and under the most adverse conditions designed to erase any cultural or historical identity. Jews did not become a nation by pledging allegiance to the State of Israel. A scraggly band of escaped slaves became a nation standing at the foot of Mount Sinai and saying to God: "We will do and we will listen" -- that is, pledging to fulfill the commandments of the Torah and with time to understand the mission that came with it.

That's how the Jews became the Nation of Israel.

Then Moses comes down with the first set of tablets, sees all the golden calf business, and stomps back up the mountain (Rosh Chodesh). He returns to with the second set of tablets (Yom Kippur). The instructions for the Ark are given.

This sanctuary -- which was readily dis-assembled and assembled -- the Jews carried around in the wanderings in the desert for 40 years. Then, when they came into the land of Israel they assembled it in four different locations. After David became king and made Jerusalem his capital, he planned to build a permanent structure just outside the city, atop Mount Moriah where Abraham had offered Isaac as a sacrifice to God and where Jacob had dreamt of a ladder to heaven. But he never got to do it.

At this juncture in time, the Jewish people have experienced a national revelation. They've been given the Torah, and built the sanctuary for God to dwell among them. Now they are ready to enter the Promised Land.

After year at Mount Sinai, the Jewish people pack up their portable sanctuary and come to the borders of the Land of Israel. They should have entered the land at this point, but somebody said, "Wait a minute, let's scout out the land." So they select 12 "scouts" or "spies" -- one from each of the 12 tribes -- and send them in to do some reconnaissance work.

These 12 spies spend 40 days scouting out the land and they come back with a huge cluster of grapes saying, "You all see the size of these grapes? You should see the size of the people who eat them. They are giants! No way we can beat them. We may as well go back to Egypt."

Only two of the spies dissent from this report: Joshua ben Nun, who is Moses' chief student, and Caleb ben Yefuna from the tribe of Judah. But the Jewish people accept the majority report of the spies. The people break down in tears at the news and refuse to budge. Moses is absolutely horrified and God is very angry. He issue two decrees of punishment:

1. God tells the Jews that because they displayed this lack of faith after He had brought them so far, they are doomed to wander in the desert for 40 years until the entire adult male population had died off. (The women, who always carried the standard of faith in Judaism, didn't listen to the spies and lived to go into the land.)

1. God tells the Jews that because they cried on this day for no good reason, they will cry on this day in history for some very good reasons.

The Jews wander for 40 years.

So after 40 years of trying to lead this unruly group, Moses loses his temper for one moment. "You rebels!" he shouts. And instead of speaking to the rock as he was commanded to do, he hits it.

And God says to Moses, "Because you don't believe in Me, you're not going to go into the Land of Israel with the Jewish people."

The Book of Joshua begins:

And it was after the death of Moses, the servant of the Lord, that the Lord said to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, "Moses my servant has died and now arise and cross the River Jordan. You and all this nation go to the land which I give the Children of Israel. Every place on which the soles of your feet will tread I have given to you, as I have spoken to Moses. No man shall stand up before you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so shall I be with you. I will not weaken my grasp on you nor will I abandon you. Just be strong and very courageous to observe and do in accordance with all the Torah that Moses my servant has commanded you. Therefore, do not stray right or left in order that you will succeed in wherever you go."

The Book of Joshua describes the conquest and settlement of the Land of Israel during a very significant period of Jewish history. There is no single power ruling the land, rather it is dotted with many fortified city-states.

At this time the so-called Promised Land is bounded by the Egyptian empire to the south and the Assyrian empire to the north. But it is not ruled by either of them. In fact, there is no one power ruling this section of land, rather it is settled by seven Canaanite tribes who inhabit 31 fortified city-states scattered all over the map, each ruled by its own "king."

(Jericho is one of these city-states, so is Ai, so is Jerusalem, where Canaanite tribesmen called Jebusites dwell.)

Before they enter the land, the Jewish people send an envoy to the Canaanites with the message, "God, the Creator of the Universe has promised this land to our forefathers. We are now here to claim our inheritance, and we ask you to leave peacefully."

Needless to say most of the Canaanites don't. (Only one tribe does the right thing and gets out.)

Meanwhile, Joshua has clear instructions from God that if the Canaanites don't get out, the Jews must wipe them out, because if they remain in the land they are going to corrupt the Jews. It is made clear that the Canaanites are extremely immoral and idolatrous people and the Jews cannot live with them as neighbors.

The people go into the land and they fight a series of battles. The first is the battle of Jericho, the entrance to the heartland of Canaan.

The Jews move on to the next city-state, a place called Ai.

Despite many difficulties on the way, the Israelites do finally lay claim to the Promised Land but their life there is far from calm, particularly after Joshua dies. The Bible relates that they had only themselves to blame:

And the children of Israel did that which was evil in the eyes of the Lord ... and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers ... and he gave them over into the hands of their enemies." (Judges 2:8-14)

The highly self-critical nature of this passage is typical of others which make the Hebrew Bible a unique document -- a holy book of a people, but also relating the sinful history of this people. It has been said that if the Hebrew Bible was not written by the Jews, it must have been written by anti-Semites.

There is no question that the criticism of the Jews in the Bible is hyper-criticism, but there are two reasons why the slightest offense by a small group of people is condemned so strongly:

As noted above, every Jew is responsible for every other Jew, and what one does reflects on all. It's such an obvious point in the moral history of the world that as soon as you tolerate something, it becomes bearable, and before long it will become common.

Therefore, here God is driving home an important point to the Jews: You're on a very high spiritual level. If you tolerate even small indiscretions by a few, eventually these few are going to pollute the nation.

Indeed, this is eventually what does happen, but before it does the Jews enjoy a honeymoon period in the land known as the Time of Judges.

So mdease is correct, in that the people fleeing from Egypt, after wandering around in the wilderness for 40 years, DID go to the land of their forefathers and CONQUER it - took it from the Canaanites.

Never say never, Radar.

Now, this, to me, has absolutely NO bearing on 1946 onward. It just addresses mdease's comment about the old testament.

Source Material:
Source: http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishh...mised_Land.asp

[xoxoxoBruce]

(Only one tribe does the right thing and gets out.)

[superbaton]

where is michael moore?

[Radar]

Here’s a list of the nations in the Middle East in alphabetical order. Each has their freedom rated in Political Rights and Civil Liberties (1 is the most free and 8 is the most oppressed). These ratings were done by the unbiased group Freedom House at:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/research.../countries.htm

As you can see there was only one country in the entire Middle East that has the status of “Free” and that nation is Israel.

Algeria
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Not Free

Bahrain
Political Rights: 5 Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Partly Free

Egypt
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 6 Status: Not Free

Iran
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 6 Status: Not Free

Iraq
Political Rights: 7 Civil Liberties: 5* Status: Not Free

Israel
Political Rights: 1 Civil Liberties: 3 Status: Free

Jordan
Political Rights: 5* Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Partly Free

Kuwait
Political Rights: 4 Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Partly Free

Lebanon
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Not Free

Libya
Political Rights: 7 Civil Liberties: 7 Status: Not Free

Morocco
Political Rights: 5 Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Partly Free

Oman
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Not Free

Qatar
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 6 Status: Not Free

Saudi Arabia
Political Rights: 7 Civil Liberties: 7 Status: Not Free

Syria
Political Rights: 7 Civil Liberties: 7 Status: Not Free

Tunisia
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Not Free

United Arab Emirates
Political Rights: 6 Civil Liberties: 6* Status: Not Free

Yemen
Political Rights: 5* Civil Liberties: 5 Status: Partly Free

[Radar]

Hatred of Jews, Israel goes back to the beginning

Dennis Campbell
April 21, 2004

Anyone who believes that a "Palestinian state" or a mutually agreeable peace treaty will end the hostilities between Israel and its enemies is abysmally ignorant, badly misinformed or plain duplicitous.

Those who have a worldview fashioned from a spiritual perspective know this conflict goes back thousands of years and will have no resolution until the prophesied Armageddon. In spite of public statements to the contrary, Arab leaders never waver from the necessity of Israel's destruction and the driving of the Jews "into the sea," in the words of master terrorist Yasser Arafat.

Those who demand an end to the "occupation" of a mythical land they call Palestine ignore the fact that before the Jews arrived in modern Israel there were no "Palestinians" — in fact, there was little of anything.

As industrious Jews transformed a barren land, "Palestinians" came to work and prosper, and are just displaced Arabs who are kept in a low estate by other Arabs to serve the aims of Middle East regimes whose primary purpose for existence, it is clear, is the annihilation of Israel.

But where does this consuming hatred originate?

Animosity toward Israel specifically and Jews in general goes back to the beginnings of the Jewish people. What we call Iraqis, Jordanians, Iranians and Saudis today were known as Babylonians, Philistines, Amalakites and Canaanites thousands of years ago.

They were the implacable enemies of the Jews then and are now, thus making themselves the enemies of God, Who said in Genesis that "I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Many in America believe that much our unparalleled prosperity is due in no small portion to our steadfast support of Israel. It also may be said that the desultory and miserable condition of the Arab states is due to their cursing of Israel.

God proclaimed through the prophet Malachi that "...I am the Lord, I do not change. Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob."

If He does not change, that means He has not changed, and the enemies of the Lord of yesterday remain His enemies today. To the eternal God, nothing today is different from 3,000 years ago.

And what was the opinion of the Lord toward these foes from antiquity? Listen to what He says of ancient adversary Amalek, who harassed the children of Israel as Moses led them from captivity in Egypt, speaking through the prophet Samuel:

"Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'"

Throughout the days of His holy prophets, from Moses to Malachi, the Almighty proclaimed to Israel, "I am the Lord," and assured Israel of His love and protection:

"I am the Lord; I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, I will rescue you from their bondage...."

"...I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior...."

As the international community increasingly opposes Israel and anti-Semitism flares anew in Europe, the remaining staunch ally of Israel is America, but that friendship is in jeopardy as those on the left and in academia resolutely work to severe the bonds that have remained so strong for so many years.

In that light, consider the words of the prophet Zechariah, describing the final hour of Jerusalem when the armies of the nations amass against her:

"And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, and their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

The Lord will stand today against the enemies of Israel because they have made themselves His enemies, just as in the days of Joshua and David.

We know He will, for we have this promise: "On the day when I chose Israel and raised My hand in an oath to the descendants of the house of Jacob, and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, I raised My hand in an oath to them, saying, 'I am the Lord your God.'"

These are words the foes of Israel would do well to heed.

Dennis Campbell is a freelance writer and reformed liberal ex-journalist living in New Mexico. He is a contributor to various Internet conservative forums.

[Radar]

Human Rights In Israel

Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of 5.6 million people, nearly 1.1 million-19 percent of the population-are non*Jews (815,000 Muslims, 163,000 Christians and 96,000 Druze).

Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Today women hold 9 of the 120 Knesset seats. Eleven Arabs and one Druze are in the current Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel's Consul*General in Atlanta. Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel.

Today, more than 200,000 Arab children attend Israeli schools. At the time of Israel's founding, there was but a single Arab high school in the country. Today, there are hundreds of Arab schools.

The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This was to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, Bedouins have served in paratroop units and other Arabs have volunteered for military duty. Compulsory military service is applied to the Druze and Circassian communities at their own request.

Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists.

Some economic and social gaps between Israeli Jews and Arabs result from the latter not serving in the military. Veterans qualify for many benefits not available to non*veterans. Moreover, the army aids in the socialization process. On the other hand, Arabs do have an advantage in obtaining some jobs during the years Israelis are in the military. In addition, industries like construction and trucking have come to be dominated by Israeli Arabs.

Another impediment to the full integration of non-Jews in Israeli society is the fact that Arab municipalities have historically received less financial support from the government than Jewish ones. Efforts are being made, however, to redress the imbalances. According to the State Department's 1996 Human Rights Report, "Government efforts to close the gaps between Israel's Jewish and Arab citizens have resulted in an estimated 160 percent increase in resources devoted to Arab communities between 1992 and 1996."

The United States has been independent for well over 200 years and still has not integrated all of its diverse communities. Even today, more than three decades after civil rights legislation was adopted, discrimination has not been eradicated. It should not be surprising that Israel has not solved all of its social problems in only 49 years.

Religious Freedom

"The law provides for freedom of religion, and the Government respects this right," according to the State Department report. In fact, each religious community has legal authority over its members in matters of marriage and divorce. They also control their own holy places in Jerusalem and elsewhere in the country.
Political Rights

"The law provides citizens with the right to change peacefully their government, and citizens exercise this right in practice through periodic, free, and fair elections held on the basis of universal suffrage for adult citizens," the State Department observed. In 1996, voters elected the Prime Minister by direct ballot for the first time.

The State Department report also notes that "Israel is a parliamentary democracy, with an active multiparty system representing a wide range of political views. Relatively small parties, including those whose primary support is among Israeli Arabs, regularly win seats in the Knesset. Elections are by secret ballot."

Legal Rights

"Israeli law prohibits arbitrary arrest of citizens," according to the State Department, "and the Government observes this prohibition....The law provides for an independent judiciary, and the Government respects this provision in practice. The judiciary provides citizens with a fair and efficient judicial process."

Israel inherited and continued certain laws adopted by the British. One is the use of administrative detention, which is permitted under certain circumstances in security cases. Israel's policy is that administrative detention is only to be used against violent offenders. The detainee is entitled to be represented by counsel, and may appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court. The burden is on the prosecution to justify holding closed proceedings. Often, officials believe presenting evidence in open court would compromise its methods of gathering intelligence and endanger the lives of individuals who have provided information about planned terrorist activities. Still, many detention orders are reduced or reversed on appeal.

In addition, Israel's prisons are probably among the most closely scrutinized in the world. One reason is the government has allowed representatives of the Red Cross and other groups to inspect them regularly. The State Department observes that "laws and administrative regulations prohibit the physical abuse of detainees." The courts and a variety of Israeli human rights organizations carefully monitor the treatment of prisoners. Nevertheless, abuses do occur, as they do in the United States.

The death penalty, which had been used by Jordan, has been applied just once. That was in the case of Adolf Eichmann, the man largely responsible for the "Final Solution." No Arab has ever been given the death penalty, even after the most heinous acts of terrorism.

Alan Dershowitz put the Israeli legal system in perspective in a speech before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's annual meeting (May 23, 1989):

One does not judge a democracy by the way its soldiers immediately react, young men and women under tremendous provocation. One judges a democracy by the way its courts react, in the dispassionate cool of judicial chambers. And the Israeli Supreme Court and other courts-have reacted magnificently. For the first time in Mideast history, there is an independent judiciary willing to listen to grievances of Arabs-that judiciary is called the Israeli Supreme Court.

LandOwnership

In the early part of the century, the Jewish National Fund was established by the World Zionist Congress to purchase land in Palestine for Jewish settlement. This land, and that acquired after Israel's War of Independence, was taken over by the government. Of the total area of Israel, 92 percent belongs to the State and is managed by the Land Management Authority. It is not for sale to anyone, Jew or Arab. The remaining 8 percent of the territory is privately owned. The Arab Waqf, for example, owns land that is for the express use and benefit of Muslim Arabs.

Government land can be leased by anyone, regardless of race, religion or sex. All Arab citizens of Israel are eligible to lease government land.
Employment

"Workers may join and establish labor organizations freely," the State Department noted in its report. "Non*resident workers in the organized sector, including Palestinians from the occupied territories, are represented by Histadrut and are covered under its collective bargaining agreements. They may join, vote for, and be elected to shop*level workers' committees. Labor laws applicable in Israel are applied to Palestinians in East Jerusalem and Syrian Arabs and Druze on the Golan Heights."

Discrimination

Israel has one of the broadest anti-discrimination laws of any country. According to the State Department, "The law prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, marital status, or sexual orientation. The law also prohibits discrimination by both government and nongovernment entities on the basis of race, religion, political beliefs, and age."

[Radar]

U.S. Aid To Israel (Part I)
by HonestReporting.com

The Christian Science Monitor delegitimizes and sensationalizes the amount of U.S. foreign aid to Israel.

This year's "Lack of Balance Award" goes to the Christian Science Monitor, for its article, "Economist Tallies Swelling Cost of Israel to U.S." (December 9, 2002)

The article vastly overstates the size of American foreign aid to Israel, saying that Uncle Sam spends twice as much money backing Israel "in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians" than it did on fighting in Vietnam. Charitable donations aren't spared the poison pen despite the fact that they're private, because the donations are a "net drain" on America's economy.

The Christian Science Monitor presents wildly exaggerated figures, supplied by economist Thomas Stauffer. The article claims:

- The U.S. has given Egypt $117 billion and Jordan $22 billion in foreign aid in return for signing peace treaties with Israel, and "those outlays are [considered] part of the total package of support for Israel."

- Stauffer tags Israel with the bill for rising oil prices (cost to U.S.: $450 billion), and a U.S. economic recession (cost: $420 billion).

- U.S. charities have supported Israel to the tune of $50-60 billion. Though private in origin, the money is "a net drain" on the United States economy, says Stauffer.

- U.S. policy and trade sanctions against adversarial regimes reduce U.S. exports to the Middle East about $5 billion a year, costing 70,000 or so American jobs, Stauffer claims. Not requiring Israel to use its U.S. aid to buy American goods, as is usual in foreign aid, costs another 125,000 jobs.

- Israel has blocked some major U.S. arms sales, such as F-15 fighter aircraft to Saudi Arabia in the mid-1980s, costing the U.S. $40 billion, says Stauffer.

* * *

And how does the Christian Science Monitor balance these overblown claims? With one lone lukewarm sentence: "Many Americans would probably say it is money well spent to support a beleagured [sic] democracy of some strategic interest."

A beleaguered democracy of some strategic interest?! Consider the facts:

- Israel is America's most trusted and reliable ally in the Middle East, the only state in the Middle East that publicly declares support for the U.S. -- despite the fact that Israel may bear the brunt of Saddam's weapons when an American offensive begins.

- Israel is on the frontline in the battle against Islamic terrorists, and provides the U.S. with key intelligence information and frontline military operations. As opinionjournal.com notes: "In 1981 Israel destroyed Iraq's Osirak reactor, setting back Saddam Hussein's quest for nuclear weapons. How much money and how many lives did this end up saving America?"

- Israel is the sole democracy in the Middle East, a region dominated by authoritarian and military regimes. Israel upholds Western ideals of freedom of expression, a free market economy, equal opportunity, women's rights, judicial review, and minority representation in elected offices. The U.S. spends untold billions spreading the ideals of democracy around the world; in Israel, it comes for free.

- The first U.S. President to supply large-scale military aid to Israel was Richard Nixon in 1970, in order to balance against the radical Arab states being financed by the Soviet Union. The U.S.-Israel partnership served its purpose by forcing such East Bloc clients as Egypt's Anwar Sadat to break from the Soviet fold. Having Israel do the dirty work in one of the world's most dangerous regions has, financially for the U.S., been a bargain.

- Israel partners with the U.S. in technological development, medical research, agricultural innovations, and a wide range of cultural exchanges. In addition, many Israeli-developed technologies serve as integral components of the U.S. military arsenal.

* * *

[Radar]

U.S. Aid To Israel (Part II)

The United States gives out $13.3 billion in direct foreign aid annually. The vast majority of these recipients express animosity toward the United States in state-sponsored media, and routinely vote against the U.S. in international forums.

Below we contrast Israel's "value" to the United States, with that of other Mideast regimes like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority.

For additional background information, we highly recommend AIPAC's overview of Israel's strategic value to the United States:
http://www.aipac.org/briefbookissues.html

Also read "The $36 Billion Bargain: Strategy and Politics in U.S. Assistance to Israel" by A.F.K. Organski (Columbia University Press). Organski is a well-respected political scientist whose work has become textbooks for political science classes throughout the country.

And cheers to Howard Feinberg for this nice follow-up article refuting the claims in the Christian Science Monitor:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=5103

===== EGYPT =====

Egypt receives $2 billion annually in U.S. foreign aid, including some of the world's most advanced weaponry like F-16 combat planes, Patriot missiles, M-1A1 battle tanks, and Harpoon anti-ship missiles, more advanced than those used by Israel. And yet:

- The government-sponsored media in Egypt has spread disparaging remarks against U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell ("bird brain"), and against other American leaders. In an article entitled "Oh, No, Mr. Bush," the editor of the government-sponsored daily, Al-Akhbar, wrote: "I say to you, Oh Mr. Bush, that you alone are responsible for the feeble image of the U.S., whose name smacks of lack of credibility and lack of transparency, and has become a synonym for oppression and for abnegation of justice and international legitimacy..." (source: memri.org)

- The government-sponsored daily, Al-Akhbar, has perverted American history and threatened American landmarks with destruction. Columnist Mahmoud Abd Al-Mun'im Murad wrote: "The U.S. treats the [Arabs] as it treated the slaves inside the American continent... The real issue is the Arab-American conflict -- Arabs must understand that the U.S. is not 'the American friend' -- and its task, past, present, and future, is [to impose] hegemony on the world, primarily on the Middle East and the Arab world... The Statue of Liberty, in New York Harbor, must be destroyed because of following the idiotic American policy that goes from disgrace to disgrace in the swamp of bias and blind fanaticism." (source: memri.org)

- The Egyptian government recently rejected a U.S. request to cease anti-Semitic television programming ("U.S. Objects to 'Protocols' on Egyptian TV" - November 1, 2002, The New York Times).

- In international forums, Egypt stands in opposition to American interests. Figures show that in the United Nations, Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time. Yet the flow of U.S. aid continues...

===== SAUDI ARABIA =====

The United States, through oil imports, pours about $10 billion annually into Saudi Arabian coffers. Here's what the U.S. gets back in return:

- A September 2002 cartoon in the Saudi Arabia-based "Arab News" depicts President Bush as an inflatable doll, with Donald Rumsfeld holding the pump and blowing him up into a likeness of Hitler.
http://www.arabnews.com/Cartoon.Asp?...&ArM=09&ArD=21

- In an August 2002 editorial, the Saudi daily Al-Riyadh defamed the totality of American history: "If America wants to open up the issue of compensation for those who died in the two towers, it must agree to the establishment of an international court that will examine [its own] war crimes, plundering, coups, what American intelligence did with the drug barons, the policy of abductions and murder, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, the claims still pending regarding the black slave trade, and the deliberate annihilation of the Indians -- and apply all this to all countries, without statute of limitations, so that we feel we live on one planet that functions according to the same moral principles." (source: memri.org)

- Fifteen of the September 11 hijackers were Saudi nationals, causing direct and secondary economic damage in the hundreds of billions of dollars. The wife of a Saudi prince has funneled funds to al-Qaeda terrorists, and a report from the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations says: "For years, individuals and charities based in Saudi Arabia have been the most important source of funds for al-Qaeda; and for years, Saudi officials have turned a blind eye to this problem."
http://cfr.org/publication.php?id=5080

- The U.S. State Department reports that freedom of religion does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Only Muslims can be citizens. The government prohibits the public practice of non-Muslim religions. Non-Muslim worshippers risk arrest, imprisonment, lashing, deportation, and sometimes torture for engaging in overt religious activity that attracts official attention.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/c7600.htm

- Figures show that in the United Nations, Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time. Yet the U.S.-Saudi alliance continues...

===== PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY =====

The United States gives over $100 million annually in foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority. And yet:

- In November 2002, PA legislator Nahed Munir Alrayis, writing in the official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, threatened the United States with suicide bombings. He wrote that U.S. policy will leave the Arab and Islamic world so hopeless that they will have no choice but to resort to "suicide attacks against the United States, its armed forces and its navy."

- Anti-American sentiment runs high in the Palestinian street. The U.S. flag going up in flames is a common site at Palestinian rallies in the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.
(http://honestreporting.com/graphics/flagburn.jpg)

- In November 2002, the White House officially announced that the Palestinians are not in compliance with agreements signed with the United States and Israel. According to the State Department's semiannual report on Palestinian compliance, PA officials have supported violence "as a proper path towards an acceptable end to the conflict, even as they called for renewed negotiations... There is strong evidence that some members of the PA security forces were allowed to continue serving even though their participation in terrorist incidents was well known."

And yet the PA continues to receive its flow of U.S. aid...

===== THE FINAL WORD =====

If the Christian Science Monitor wants to criticize how U.S. aid is being spent, it is picking the wrong target. For in deep contrast to other Mideast recipients of U.S. foreign aid, figures show that in the United Nations, Israel votes with the United States 94% of the time.

[Troubleshooter]

Ok, look, if what's going on over there is so important to you then pack a bag and take off.

But please, please, PLEASE, shut the fuck up about it already. Nobody is going to agree with you and I'm rather certain everyone is tired of hearing about it.

It's getting so I'm having TW flashbacks, geez...

[Undertoad]

I pretty much agree with Radar on a lot of Israel, although I agree this thread is next to useless. Big cut-n-pastery doesn't usually have the effect here that people might want it to. I can read anonymous opinion anywhere, here I want to read real people.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

Nobody is going to agree with you and I'm rather certain everyone is tired of hearing about it.

uM.. What do you think he's trying to say?

I agree with alot that Radar says about Israel, until he uses words like "never".