Isolationism

Originally Posted by marichiko

Six years ago I had other things on my so-called mind, but, yes, as a matter of fact, I could have accepted the hypothesis of a future which has become current reality. Six years ago, the US was as greedy for oil as it is now; six years ago the US had already engaged in the first Gulf War; six years ago I saw first hand how the US military was treating its Gulf War veterans; six years ago my city had already been over-run with religous whacko's like the Focus on the Family crowd, etc., etc.

I don't know about your statistic of 10% of the world being Evangelicals, but, for the sake of argument, I'll accept it. I live in a town right next door to the epicenter of the religous right in this country, Colorado Springs. The town I currently reside in has a reputation for being a haven for Wiccan's and other pagan types. There are certainly individuals in the next town over who practice religous intolerance. I have had people advise me to move out of my town or just look at me like I've suddenly sprouted two horns and a tail when I tell them where I live. Ignorant folks next door think witches on broomsticks fly around here. Whatever.

The fact remains that no one has come and burned down my town or rounded up its residents to be burned at the stake. We still have the same rights here as the folks next door do, despite the fact that we all live in the same county. When I go down to the county court house for some reason and give my place of residence, I am not automatically shunted off into a "witches only area." The local representative to the state legislature actually resides in my community.

You are going to have a very hard time getting me to believe that this country would round up all Jewish Americans to be deported to Israel and killed. If somebody ever sets fire to Manitou Springs, I'll be sure to let you all know, never fear. I was horrified when everyone told me of the danger involved when I thought I had run across some old explosives, since I have no desire to send sparks flying at ANYONE.

Wonderful post, thank you.

I have been expearincing an alternative awareness.

Many of the German Jews of the twenties and thirties were affluent, assimilated and a part of the tapestry of what was Germany, an invisible minority. There were also Hasidic, Ultra Orthodox Jews who were visible. Eventually, cloned, brainwashed (but I didn’t know, as he or she was paraded past mountains of half baked rotting Jewish flesh, at the end of the war) average Joe civilian received pleasure yanking the beards off Orthodox Jews, by hand, taking clumps of flesh along with hair. At the time there were eleven million Jews in Europe. Hitler baked more than fifty percent of them. The horror was not that he fried six million; (which of course was horrible), the horror is how systematically he did it. You know all about the power of propaganda. Propaganda has become much more sophisticated today. Dr Joseph Goebbels would be pleased that his fundamental manipulations are flourishing.

Nobody knew then.

I will never forget.

I expect the BACS to attempt to fulfill the tribulations, Godly divined or not.

Because I am a Jew I was confronted in a kill or be killed scenario. I wasn’t killed.

You're welcome. I am actually sitting here debating you to night because the web site I am trying to build in regard to my own pet peeve is down, and I feel quite frustrated at the moment.

I am well aware that many German Jews were assimilated into German society and considered themselves good German citizens, maybe even before they thought of themselves as Jews.

When I was in college one of my botany professors was Jewish. I really liked this man - he was one of my favorite teachers. I took a summer field course from him that involved much time spent out in the mountains, gathering botanical specimens. One night me and him and the rest of the class (there were ten of us) were sitting on a hillside after a long day collecting and just looking up at the stars. Someone brought up the subject of the holocaust (it wasn't the prof), and I remarked that it seemed to me that the average German was trapped into silence about the entire thing. After all, I argued, they had their families there in that country, their jobs, their friends and their lives. They were living under a dictatorship and they knew the price they'd pay for speaking out. They were only human. Surely, one might at least understand if not completely forgive them for not protesting.

My professor became quite angry at my words. He said to me that there was absolutely no excuse for the silence of the German people in regard to what was happening to the Jews and other groups at the time. He said that the lives of 6 million people could have been spared, since to hear everyone talk after Germany lost the war, that everyone had been a "good" German and was horrified at what went on. He said if all those "good" Germans had acted to opposed such a terrible evil carried out by a minority then Auschwitz and the rest of the camps would never have been built. He said there is never an excuse for remaining silent in the face of such atrocities being done to one's fellow human beings.

We were all humbled by his words and sat silently for a while, staring up at the heavens.

Originally Posted by marichiko

My professor became quite angry at my words. He said to me that there was absolutely no excuse for the silence of the German people in regard to what was happening to the Jews and other groups at the time. He said that the lives of 6 million people could have been spared, since to hear everyone talk after Germany lost the war, that everyone had been a "good" German and was horrified at what went on. He said if all those "good" Germans had acted to opposed such a terrible evil carried out by a minority then Auschwitz and the rest of the camps would never have been built. He said there is never an excuse for remaining silent in the face of such atrocities being done to one's fellow human beings.

We were all humbled by his words and sat silently for a while, staring up at the heavens.

Goebbels made sure the German citizens were aware of the death camps. It was part of his propaganda machine. They said they didn’t know. They lied. I could prove that 100 times over. Please not tonight.

The American Second Amendment was for the purpose for the American citizen to bear arms for the sake of revolting against a corrupt American administration.

I hold every American, left, right and centre responsible for current war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nobody can convince me the American citizens are ignorant, powerless, victims.

I am so sorry; you seem like a nice person. Napalm, White Phosphorus, melting babies. 100k innocent Iraqis murdered. Abu Graib, Gitmo, transferring prisoners to torture friendly countries. Illegal invasions including recently, Pakistan. This is common knowledge. When bush is hung will you say you didn’t know?

Originally Posted by marichiko

I am actually sitting here debating you to night because the web site I am trying to build in regard to my own pet peeve is down

I am a second choice? Sigh.

Staring up at the heavens sounds lovely. It is minus 40c here tonight. I have two excelent down sleeping bags.

Originally Posted by dov

The American Second Amendment was for the purpose for the American citizen to bear arms for the sake of revolting against a corrupt American administration.

I hold every American, left, right and centre responsible for current war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nobody can convince me the American citizens are ignorant, powerless, victims.

Who would you have me shoot first, and what good would it do?

I hold every Canadian responsible for the fact that their government does not break all ties with the United States, complete with a total trade embargo, and a concrete wall 12 feet high, topped with barbed wire all along the Canadian/US border.

Where does that get us?

And, yes, debating you comes in second to doing what I can to save lives in my own country, in my own state, in my own town.

Individual Americans actually are pretty powerless. Unless you have a big wad of cash to throw at the nearest politician, the status quo will remain unchanged. I spend my days sending e-mails to the entire state legislature. I contact government agencies and file formal complaints. I make my town council hold special meetings just for the issues I bring up and have local federal representatives appear before them to answer their and my questions.

I know more than I want about what goes on in this country and this world.

I get e-mails from officials telling me that I am too angry and too confrontational and to please leave them alone.

Blanket condemnations will get you nothing but enemies.

It's - 3 farenheit in Colorado tonight - a tropical temperature when compared to that of the hearts of most of politicians.

What do you think your prof would say after he reads the rhetoric you just spewed, filled with just the proper balance of justification and rationalization.

What is the difference between the scenario he commented on and the present? He was disgusted they chose powerlessness.

I will tell you a secret. I really don’t like being disliked; no matter how well I play I don’t give a sh1t persona, so there is always the struggle between speaking the truth as I see it and kissing ass. I am not well liked, but I am true to me.

Well, Dov, I think my old prof would be proud of me for being such a tiger in the face of such insurmountable odds.

BTW, my story took place back in the Vietnam war era, and that prof wasn't joining the anti-war protests or writing letters to the editor demanding that Nixon be impeached. Talk is cheap on both sides of the equation.

According to you, every American should whip out a gun and kill the people you tell them to or be labeled as fascist pigs.

I'm not going to play the role of your hit man, so I guess I'll just oink on out of here.

Bye now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by dov

I will tell you a secret. I really don’t like being disliked; no matter how well I play I don’t give a sh1t persona, so there is always the struggle between speaking the truth as I see it and kissing ass. I am not well liked, but I am true to me.

That may make you righteous but it doesn't make you right.

I don’t need or want to be right, or righteous. I enjoyed talking with marichiko. I sense, well more than sense, she is multifaceted. Some others as well. I am here to learn and possibly make a friend, which is difficult, me being arrogant, abrasive, and self-centred. Those are my good traits.

[wolf]

You left out lousy judge of character. That really turns on the ladies.

Claiming I have no libido works for me. They have to try and prove me wrong.

Its relatively comparable to that converting a lesbian challenge thingy.


(btw, I have no libido)

[wolf]

For which we are extremely grateful.

[xoxoxoBruce]

btw, I have no libido

How can you be an artist without it? Especially sculpture, the most sensuous of the art forms.

I sense, well more than sense, she is multifaceted.

Facets are fine, it's the abrupt junctions that are jarring.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How can you be an artist without it? Especially sculpture, the most sensuous of the art forms.

Shhhh, psssttt, it a ploy, don’t let them know.

I live to grind stone mmmmmmmmmmm

Ummm anybody know what this thread started out as?

Originally Posted by dov

I enjoyed talking with marichiko. I sense, well more than sense, she is multifaceted.

Originally Posted by Wolf

You are a lousy judge of character

LMAO Oh, man, Wolf! You should have AGREED with the man! Pffft! Did you ever mess up on a chance to come up with a witty comeback, or what? Thank you ever so much for defending me!

Note to Dov: I have a long history of battles on the Cellar, not the least of which was being accused of having a triple personality. Multifaceted, indeed!
Oh, my, thank you all for a good laugh!