Beesties Observations

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sorry this took so long, one finger typing and bad spelling makes it go slow.

I'm answering Beesties post here because I don't feel IOtD is the place for it.

Ok. I've read this thread over and over and have made some decisions and drawn some conclusions. But since your posts are uncharacteristically vague, I'll lay out my thoughts which you can either: ignore, correct or respond to.
Bruce is very not happy with UT's decision to ban Mari (even temporarily). This is a matter of record.

Yes & No ~Yes, I was unhappy to see her banned and I posted that what I thought her contribution has been here.
No, I was not unhappy with UT's decision, any of UT's decisions. I don't question them because it's not my place to do that. It's his right and responsibility to do that. I can comment on the result but never question the decision process. Only UT has all the information he uses to make those decisions and I stated that here.

Bruce seems to think UT has turned into LJ's henchman.

Hardly. I said to LJ... "Tony open with a post that said nothing except 'here it is'. You posted first, but there's no way to tell the time span, now. He set it up and you spiked it ......the posts I quoted show that."
I called it as I saw it..... but even if I was right, one thread hardly makes UT a "henchman".

Bruce seems to think UT is being judgemental.

Uh, yes. As is everyone else including myself. Not just in Mari's case, but every post and every poster. Don't you?

The church reference in this thread is troubling.

Why? What are you reading into that picture that I don't get?

The stallion reference is very troubling.

I don't get that either.

Posting UT's pic in the above pics is deeply troubling.

Duh, It's supposed to UT's vacation.

The goatse reference is unknown to me and I'm not inclined to follow any of the links right now but, based on the follow up comments, I'll guess that I would probably find it downright offensive.

I should hope so. Before he died, Goatse's site was the most offensive site on the net, for my money. It's been discussed here in the Cellar several times. For years, Goatse's site was used as a prank....get unsuspecting people to follow a link.
The picture of the Chinese blast furnace reminded me of Goatse's picture. It was a joke. I figured some people would get a chuckle and it would just sail over the heads of the rest. My mistake, I never thought it would become an issue with discussion and links.

Seems to me your looking for either subconscious or intentional motives on my part. If so you're wrong. I might be guilty of bad taste but nothing more.

Bruce is of the opinion that softball "feel-good" responses to Brianna are "enabling" but considers hardball responses to Mari to be unfair and judgmental. Bruce is hereby advised that Brianna deserves all the support she gets because she is brutally honest with herself and does not shield herself from candid replys. One who is not afraid to admit to and confront his or her own frailties requires not bludgeoning but a measure of support. Denial, on the other hand, requires a firmer response. While you might think Mari is "consistently confused," I and others find her to be a serial misrepresentationalist (yes, I just made that word up).

Whoa. You're mixing apples and oranges.
First Mari. The Cellar seems to be split on whether she's a con or not. I've stated I'm on the 'not' side. Reading a post by anyone, you don't get all the details, all the background or circumstances. You get what the poster feels you need for background to tie into the point they're trying to make. Christ, if everyone gave all the details, every post of that type would have to be split into two or three posts for size limit.
But, when someone has a hardon for the poster, they'll piss and moan it doesn't add up and any further explanation falls on deaf ears.
Mari might be a complete fabrication by a 28 year old guy from Iraq. I have no way of proving it one way or the other. But, I'm more concerned with the point of the post than the background of the poster. If I'm for the death penalty and they are against it, why should I care who they are?

Now Brianna. "Brianna deserves all the support she gets because she is brutally honest with herself and does not shield herself from candid replys."
Well, if you go back and read all of Brianna's posts (threads) you'll see she has gotten plenty of empathy and plenty of advice.... even from me. You'll also see the the one most consistant piece of advice she has gotten is to stay away from the asshole professor. Everyone agrees on that.
Bri has been here about a year and a half and gone through some heavy shit that appeared to be her whole world progressively crumbling. She hit bottom and has made a tremendous effort to get her shit together. We've had some contact by PM and email about it plus all that's been laid out on the board.
Now in the thread you are refering to, despite of all the empathy and advice from us, she'd been in contact with the asshole professor and it devastated her...again. That's when I decided, (for me, you do what you want) that it was time for some tough love because he is the worst thing that can happen to her now. She is the only one that can do it, we can't do it for her. It's high time she took some of that good advice she's gotten here.
I guess I'm a prick.

Bruce may have forgotten that while he is a senior member of this forum, he is still a guest and whatever the circumstances, I still think that if a guest has a problem with the host he should take it up with him in private and not try to publicly challenge and embarrass him.
But, like I said, I could be wrong about all of this given the oblique nature of what I'm responding to.

1- I'm not a senior member, I've only been here for 3 1/2 years. Many have been here much longer.

2- No, I'm not a guest, I'm a member, as you pointed out. As a member, if the board is to remain healthy, I'm obligated to voice my opinions on anything that might come up. I feel the other members have the same obligation as apparently you do.

3- If I had a problem with UT, I'd only have two options in my mind. Either tell him so or go away.

4- I resent you're accusation that I'm trying to embarrass him. Homey don't do that.

5- Yes, you're wrong, very wrong. That said, I thank you for saying what you thought, because if you misread my intentions, probably others did too. So, this gives me the opportunity to set the record straight.

If my actions caused Tony any embarrassment, I'm truly sorry. I'll ask him.

[Ibby]

I've only been here, what, a couple weeks? But in those few weeks, I've definitely gotten the impression that bruce is an upright guy with a good sense of humour. I can't really see what Beestie's on about at all.

[WabUfvot5]

Bruce seems fine to me. Granted he could be a fraud too but I see more troubling behavior than anything he's posted.

[Cyclefrance]

Go along with the core of the last two comments. Not sure why there is a beef about Bruce. From my (relatively) short time here, I have noticed that Bruce makes the effort to interact where many would not, and he is as competent with a full blooded analysis of a situation as he is with a one-liner. Haven't seen any malicious commentary initiated by him at all, myself.

Worth noting also: it's not easy to introduce objective comment into an emotional situation - someone is likely to misinterpret and put a slant on it that isn't there/intended - same goes for trying to make a witty comment too. Too easy to get hold of the wrong end of the stick in these situations. and law of averages will also play its part whetever, as some expressed observations are obligated to fall on stony ground.

What I would add in Bruce's case is that, having gained some insight into the genuineness of the guy, I would unerringly give him the benefit of the doubt on such occasions.

[Beestie]

Bruce is one of my favorite posters here and I wasn't in any big hurry to rush to an incorrect conclusion. I appreciate his diplomatic response and apologize for mischaracterising his intentions.

[Elspode]

Good call on the apology, then, Beestie.

Of *all* the Cellarites, in my experience, Bruce is the single one whom I would judge to be virtually above reproach as far as concerns honesty, judiciousness, good humor and generosity of spirit. While there are many great, kind and decent people here, Bruce gets the little gold statue.

If it seems that I hold Bruce in some elevated measure of esteem, it is because I do. Bruce walks his talk, and mostly in ways that the vast majority of Cellarites never hear or know about...because *he* doesn't flaunt it, and he damn well doesn't want it flaunted by others. He is a man of actions rather than words, and anyone who would doubt his motives or actions here on the Cellar, even for a moment, is dead wrong.

If UT weren't on vacation, I think he might pipe up in a simliar fashion.

[mrnoodle]

Bruce is part of the core of this forum. The Cellar without him wouldn't be the Cellar.

I'm not sure what's gotten into the water here lately, but I think some of y'all need a walk outside in the fresh air. Marichiko might rub some of you the wrong way, but I'm at a loss as to why she is getting so much negativity thrown at her. Why is she under a microscope all of a sudden? You don't like her posts, don't read em. We disagree on 90% of everything, but I don't feel the need to take potshots and try to stir up a fight to see if I can get her banned.

What really bums me out is that once certain people have stuck the "public enemy" tag on a certain user, everyone feels like they have to choose a team. Instead, I'm forming a 3rd team, for people who think we should just go back to posting pictures of weird French puppets and arguing about how wrong your political/theological/sociological viewpoint is.

Yes, it got nasty and people said some shit. It happens. Everyone back to their corner? UT is providing a world-class place for us to hang out in, let's not make him regret it.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Beestie

I appreciate his diplomatic response and apologize for mischaracterising his intentions.

Nice post, Beetsie. I love to see that kind of reply.

:::applause from a cartoon face:::

The only other thing I wanted to say was that "misrepresentationalist" is an awesome word! Who coined that? Can I plagarize? "Misrepresentationalist" has so many uses in the crazy world we live in.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by Flint

..."misrepresentationalist" is an awesome word! Who coined that? Can I plagarize?

Thanx. I did. Yes. Good to know that at least one good thing came out of this big mess I just made.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Instead, I'm forming a 3rd team, for people who think we should just go back to posting pictures of weird French puppets

I loves me some of them weird French puppets...

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

I'm not sure what's gotten into the water here lately, but I think some of y'all need a walk outside in the fresh air...

...I'm forming a 3rd team, for people who think we should just go back to posting pictures of weird French puppets and arguing about how wrong your political/theological/sociological viewpoint is...

...UT is providing a world-class place for us to hang out in, let's not make him regret it.

THANK YOUfor putting into words what I would like to say. I've been gone essentially for 2 weeks and the shit hit the fan whilst I was away. Maybe we all need to take a cellar break for a week and learn what exactly we are missing, eh? It would be a sad sad day that I can't log on.

This place has taught me, made me laugh, cry, gag, you name it. I figure it has done as much for my mental health as a psych appt would, and I think a lot of you probably would agree. (In fact, I put a couple of copays worth of tips in the 'ole jar as a thank you.) To lose the unique dynamic of the Cellar, namely the unique combination of life experience that each member contributes here would be a tragedy IMHO. I don't necesarily want everyone to "just get along"; doubt, debate, and uncommon ground is good for all of us, but how about all stapping back and remembering what KEPT us here after initially discovering it?

Sheesh.

[limey]

I wanna be in mrnoodle's team!

[thrillhouse]

dibs on team mascot!!

[Cyclefrance]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I loves me some of them weird French puppets...

They're in London this coming weekend... Yay!!

[Trilby]

I hate those weird French puppets. I always have. They come alive at night and try to eat you. And, not in a good way, either.