What it means to be an American

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by richlevy

...someone in the White House will get the bright idea to offer the conservatives in Congress a deal - amnesty for the 11 million in illegals in exchange for shipping an equal number of gays to Mexico.

Would you like a paper bag to breathe into? I mean really...

[skysidhe]

good post oh wise monster

[BigV]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Shrill may perhaps not make it untrue

~ Shrill<>!true

Originally Posted by MaggieL

But that's not a concession that it's [being shrill] true

~ !(shrill==true)

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

what you're saying [shrill-y] may be true

~ shrill=true or shrill<>true

How can you fail to follow Happy Monkey's logic? He paraphrased you and you confirmed it, what's unclear? His logic is sound.

Furthermore, his political observation is worthwhile too.

This current derailment is about the difference between shrillness and truthfulness. That is a discussion about the difference between form and content. And I agree that the grandstanding by the current political newsmakers is vastly more about form than content. And that's a stance that practically begs to substitute "Sure, what you're saying may be true, but at least I can damage your credibility!" for dialog.

[MaggieL]

Shrill and true are disjoint. His logic is bogus. So is yours.

[Happy Monkey]

"may be"

[BigV]

What's disjoint is trying to apply strict rules of logic to a conversation like this. If you wish to declare shrill and true to be disjoint, your own introduction to this conversation of the word "shrill" in response to xoB's political opinion is a poster child for illogic, and an ad hominem attack as well. "We disagree, and you're shrill." I read his post, and your response and I didn't find it "shrill". You clearly disagree, am I being shrill now?

As to my logic, I specifically called the comparison of shrill and true misapplied. They're not disjoint, though. They're complimentary. The first is about form, and the second is about content. They're NOT the same thing, but they absolutely overlap.

Additionally, I made a distict separation of the "logic" of the conversation and the political opinions being voiced. I happen to agree with xoB and HM, and clearly you do not. That seems to be the source of friction here, not "logic". MaggieL, you are in the difficult and uneviable position of defending this administration's actions. Good luck disengaging from that tar baby.

[MaggieL]

"You're shrill" is an ad hominem. "Attacks on Bush that use the words 'Nazi', 'mental midget' or 'antichrist' are shrill." is merely descriptive....and if not turning "A does not imply B" into "A implies not B" is too formal, then Goddess save us all.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

"You're shrill" is an ad hominem. "Attacks on Bush that use the words 'Nazi', 'mental midget' or 'antichrist' are shrill." is merely descriptive....and if not turning "A does not imply B" into "A implies not B" is too formal, then Goddess save us all.

well, I wasn't screaming the word 'anitchrist' and waving my hands running in circles. :p


And I would never call Bush a Nazi. I reserve that word for Rumsfield.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

well, I wasn't screaming the word 'anitchrist' and waving my hands running in circles. :p

Yeah, I know.

The problem here is there's an ongoing debate spread across two or three threads; since I'm stubbornly not responding to the standard Bush-bashing normative pressures, many feel a need to to show me the Error Of My Ways and collect their communal strokes for being seen to be Right Thinking Progressives.

Oh...sorry...I mean "Correct Thinking Progressives".

So some comments from me that may seem to apply to you personally actually are partly responses to stuff going on elsewhere.

Honest, there's nothing like being a gun-owning bisexual to keep one from being poltically doctrinaire.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Honest, there's nothing like being a gun-owning bisexual to keep one from being poltically doctrinaire.

not a problem


I got to love ya. You're the only person who talks to me.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The problem with the shrillness is that it's annoying and counterproductive--unless you're only preaching to the choir, in which case it's merely pointless and self-congratulatory. It has nothing to do with the actual truth of the argument, except insofar as it projects that the speaker is breathless and hysterical...~snip

Then how do you explain the popularity of FOX News.

[warch]

Well said V. even if you conjured the metaphoric "tar baby"...is it coming back into common use?! trendy.

Americans are trendy.

Really, I was just going to note the American almost universal ideal of "the lawn" particularly in the front. A very uniform presentation. You can get a bit funkier in the back, but dont break the vast chemical green expanse.

[Spexxvet]

Being American means that even though it is legal, we don't want anyone knowing what porn sites we visit or which phone sex services we use.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Being American means that even though it is legal, we don't want anyone knowing what porn sites we visit or which phone sex services we use.

It also means, however, that we want to know what sites other people are looking at.

[BigV]

SPEAKING OF American...

Originally Posted by xoB

Then how do you explain the popularity of FOX News.

it's merely pointless and self-congratulatory. And poisonous.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

The whoring for Christianity on Fox (and the whoring for sensationalism of O'Reilly) at least are intermittant and obvious.

You're talking about those parts between the commercials, right? Yeah, I noticed that too. Very considerate of them to alert the viewers in that way.