What it means to be an American

[jonesieQ]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Watch out Bruce...your cynicism will wake up my cynicism and I'm not sure we wanna go there.....

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I think it goes like this

The teenager understands 20% of the world, and believes s/he understands 80%.

The adult understands 30%, and believes s/he understands 60%.

The elderly adult understands 40% and believes s/he understands 40%.

Which gives rise to

Originally Posted by widely misattributed but unknown

Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart.
Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head.

and

Originally Posted by Mark Twain

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.

and

Hire a teenager! (while he still knows everything).

[richlevy]

Well, you can possibly survive on low-wage jobs as long as you or your family doesn't get sick.

In 2001, 1.458 million American families filed for bankruptcy. To investigate medical contributors to bankruptcy, we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers in five federal courts and subsequently completed in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited medical causes, which indicates that 1.9–2.2 million Americans (filers plus dependents) experienced medical bankruptcy. Among those whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs averaged $11,854 since the start of illness; 75.7 percent had insurance at the onset of illness. Medical debtors were 42 percent more likely than other debtors to experience lapses in coverage. Even middle-class insured families often fall prey to financial catastrophe when sick.

So as part of the mandatory credit counseling which people have to go through as part of the new bankruptcy law, I guess the advice given boils down to "don't get sick".

[jonesieQ]

"Even middle-class insured families often fall prey to financial catastrophe when sick."

The sickening part of it is that in order to get any help from the state in dealing with a catastrophic illness the family first has to use up all savings, all assets, liquidate holdings, and sell their home. Which means, to an older retired self-sufficient couple, everything they worked for has to go and because they're older, they won't have the time or opportunity to build it all up again. So in order to live, you must give up your life and all you worked for.

And all so stockholders and leaders of the insurance industry and their lobbyists can pocket their returns.

Anybody seen "Bullworth"?

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by jonesieQ

70%?...so with that blissful ignorance, get the hell out there and make the system change!! If your house & car won't be re-possessed, if you aren't hogtied to a job, if you don't have debt in the thousands, if you have no kids to feed and haven't had to face your mortality, then you have the time and wherewithal to make it happen! Make it happen, Cap'n!!

...Er, I was kidding.

I have a firm enough grasp of the world to know what I'm talking about, else I don't talk about it. I will always fully admit when I don't have the expeirence to know something. I can usually hold my own with people older than me... at least, I think I can.

I DO know that I know more about the world around me than most people my age. Not because I'm arrogant; I am arrogant sometimes, but I know when I'm being so. I know that I know more because I WANT to know more. I can't say the same about the majority of fifteen-year-olds.

Again, mellow out.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by primal muse

if you knew anything about good music you might know that its from the beginning of breathe by pink floyd.

Uh-huh. Your point?

Originally Posted by primal muse

edit: and im lacking a certain appendige that would qualify me as a "he"

Ah, sorry. Bad assumption on my part and a lack of profile field. Thanks for clearing that up.

[primal muse]

Originally Posted by jonesieQ

At 21 maybe Primal is frightened by the current conditions.

you hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head right there.
what frightens me even moreso is that the majority of people my age just dont care.
im scared to think about what our future will be like for americans.
most of my generation is undereducated, highschool dropouts (me included, i decided to take a hard road) unaware of anything that is going on in this country or with foriegn relations etc.
which gives the system the perfect oppurtunity to rape us.
i will say this, i come from one of those lower class families that cant even afford health insurance. its infuriating.
my mom has a drug problem and cant even get into a government funded rehab because her income is "too high"
so they might as well say youre poor, not poor enough, i guess youre fucked.
and my fear is that things like that will only get worse as time goes by.
think about the progression of corruption from the 1950's until now. it was a swift sociological downfall, more crime rates, more drugs, etc.
i constantly fear that we're hurling ourselves towards destruction. and our governemnt is so concerned over keeping drugs off the street that they miss so many rapists and cerial killers and pedofiles its not even funny. we are not focused on the real issues and that my friend is scary.
and thats only one little sliver out of a big pie of things that are not right and that are more than likely detrimental to this country's future.
our elders are not preparing our youth to run this country in the future.

and i'd love to do something about it but im at a total loss. no one else i know even cares enough.

[primal muse]

and to any one ive offended i'll come out and say this.
i express my opinions with force because i like the forceful results i get from other people.
anything you believe in should always be carried out with a sense of passion.
and im not one of those little girls who will let everything you say go into one ear and out of the other.
i do take into account that youre older and have been alive longer than me. and it would be a flat out lie to say im not still angst ridden and confused.
but conversations like this help me make sense of it all.
ive always firmly believed that you can never have an educated opinion on anything unless you look at it from every different angle that you possibly can, hence i thrive on debates like this.
i really didnt mean to come up in here acting like a snotty know it all which is pretty much the aire i gave off.
im just a passionate person when it comes to what i believe in.
my apologies.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Primal, no apologies necessary. The only problem I see is you were yelling at the choir. Stick around and I think you'll find most of the people in the Cellar are aware of the problems with our system and society.
It's a good place to bounce ideas or vent, just don't assume we're the enemy.

You'll fit in fine.

[capnhowdy]

PM.....
Please Do voice your opinions with force. That has always been my (as well as many others here) practice. I have and will feel strongly enough about my values , especially when it comes to these US, that I was and am willing to fight and die for them.

Do yourself a favor and don't be offended when someone else voices theirs. I never look down to 'younger folks' as I remember being your age. You are the future of our country.

Ever consider the Marine Corps? You could really put your views in action there. Of course you'd have to move out of Mom's house.

Welcome to the Cellar. I think we'll get along just fine.

[primal muse]

thanks for being so understanding guys. i think im going to like it here.

[jonesieQ]

Originally Posted by primal muse

thanks for being so understanding guys. i think im going to like it here.

Primal -- CapnHowdy and Bruce said it all. And I'm a passionate among apathetics too....which is why I joined the Cellar. Being able to hang out with opinionated, outspoken, intelligent, sometimes obnoxious, funny, folks...it's kinda like home
So, one newbie to another, stick around, we'll have some fun, maybe even find some answers!!

[primal muse]

i must say the atmosphere around here is much different from other boards im on.
people are clever, but extremely childish on other boards.
i like the fact that there's older people around here. perhaps i can learn a thing or two.

[Ibby]

I know I have.

You oughtta check out the politics and current events forums. They're fun, and sure to raise your blood pressure.

[Griff]

What it means to be an American

It means you will learn to hate our youth footb... er soccer programs which crush individual initiative in favor of a boring team game which won't get us anywhere in the cup.