Bombs Kill at Least 90 People in Iraq - Page 2

Happy Monkey · 01-26-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

We freed them from the tyrannical reign of a monster - why would we expect them to be grateful?

"Shock and awe" doesn't pave the way for flower-strewn streets. We destroyed their infrastructure, disbanded their military, fired their civil service, and then expected everything to fall into place. They had no backup plan; in fact they believe that backup plans are counterproductive.

Quote:

Top administration officials are however adamant that contemplating an alternative would simply doom the current plan to failure.

"I don't think you go to plan B. You work with plan A," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Thursday, explaining why the administration had no contingency plans lined up.

"You work with plan A and you give it the possibility of success, the best possibility of success."

yesman065 · 01-26-2007, 12:00 PM

Thanks for that link - Nice of you to add the... "They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here." ...now and not in your original post. Although there are many, I'll add just one more for good measure. "...help pave the way for a new Iraqi government, a government that will be chosen by the Iraqi people, not by anyone else."

piercehawkeye45 · 01-26-2007, 12:34 PM

The Iraqi people are too divided to ever unite under a democratic leader.

Happy Monkey · 01-26-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

Thanks for that link - Nice of you to add the... "They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here." ...now and not in your original post.

Yes, in my paraphrase I skipped the platitudes and highlighted the horribly horribly wrong thing he said. How unfair of me.

Of course, the pollyanna platitudes show their lack of planning as well. Destroy their infrastructure and civil structure, and they can live their lives and do wonderful things! Then we can set up a more friendly government that will be chosen by the Iraqis and not anyone else! And it'll just take a few weeks!

yesman065 · 01-26-2007, 01:54 PM

Anyone who thought this would take a few weeks and not YEARS was kidding themselves. As we all know now, this is but a part of the war on terror.

Flint · 01-26-2007, 01:57 PM

This vague, lingering association between Iraq and terrorism...it got us there, then evaporated...but it just won't go away...what does it consist of?

piercehawkeye45 · 01-26-2007, 01:59 PM

The war on terror is no different than the war on drugs, It is impossible to win. We can not get everyone in the world to like America and the western world. "War on Terror" is just a catch-phrase that is used by the Bush administration to get people to support their agenda.

Do you think the Iraqi police are helping the situation at all? Did you see the video I posted on a different thread? The war isn't Iraq versus America it is Sunni Iraq versus Shiite Iraq and America is caught in the middle.

Flint · 01-26-2007, 02:02 PM

no way dude, we had that war on drugs and now nobody does drugs anymore

Shawnee123 · 01-26-2007, 02:05 PM

We learned to just say no *thank you*

yesman065 · 01-26-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The war isn't Iraq versus America it is Sunni Iraq versus Shiite Iraq and America is caught in the middle.

You finally convined me - you're right we should just pack up all our shit and come home.

Griff · 01-26-2007, 02:24 PM

Lew Rockwell wrote an interesting piece on the nature of Saddam's regime. He argues that Saddam had very carefully and sometimes brutally woven together a country in which groups of people really hated one another. Iraqis lack a common ideology so the Bushite idea of implementing a new state by killing Saddam and holding elections falls far short. Rockwell's solution is much cheaper in blood and treasure and comes from the Iraqi people themselves.

So what should happen? The US should abandon Baghdad. It should, in effect, allow the country to "fall apart" in the same way that Gorbachev let his empire dissolve. Iraq would split into many states, some of them noncontiguous. Governing units of all shapes and sizes would appear. The main reason for the ghastly killing – fear of the rule by one group over another – would vanish. Here is the highest hope for peace in Iraq.

So long as the US insists that Iraq be a single nation under one government, it will inspire chaos and killing. Bush was wrong, but in a way that is usually not understood. His mistake was not in overthrowing the state but in hoping to create and control a new one.

glatt · 01-26-2007, 02:45 PM

I've often thought the same thing. But the argument against that is that Turkey will attack the Kurds if that happens.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-26-2007, 11:40 PM

Maybe they won't if we ask/tell them not to. Of course we would have to guarantee the Turks that the Kurds won't give them trouble.
Of course the Kurds that live in Turkey, we couldn't do anything about, unless we occupied that area or expelled all the Kurds out of Turkey.
Kind of like the wonderful way the British separated The Indians and Pakistanis.

01-26-2007, 01:57 PM	#21
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	This vague, lingering association between Iraq and terrorism...it got us there, then evaporated...but it just won't go away...what does it consist of? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

01-26-2007, 02:02 PM	#23
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	no way dude, we had that war on drugs and now nobody does drugs anymore __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

01-26-2007, 02:05 PM	#24
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	We learned to just say no thank you __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

01-26-2007, 02:24 PM	#26
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Lew Rockwell wrote an interesting piece on the nature of Saddam's regime. He argues that Saddam had very carefully and sometimes brutally woven together a country in which groups of people really hated one another. Iraqis lack a common ideology so the Bushite idea of implementing a new state by killing Saddam and holding elections falls far short. Rockwell's solution is much cheaper in blood and treasure and comes from the Iraqi people themselves. So what should happen? The US should abandon Baghdad. It should, in effect, allow the country to "fall apart" in the same way that Gorbachev let his empire dissolve. Iraq would split into many states, some of them noncontiguous. Governing units of all shapes and sizes would appear. The main reason for the ghastly killing – fear of the rule by one group over another – would vanish. Here is the highest hope for peace in Iraq. So long as the US insists that Iraq be a single nation under one government, it will inspire chaos and killing. Bush was wrong, but in a way that is usually not understood. His mistake was not in overthrowing the state but in hoping to create and control a new one. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-26-2007, 11:40 PM	#28
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Maybe they won't if we ask/tell them not to. Of course we would have to guarantee the Turks that the Kurds won't give them trouble. Of course the Kurds that live in Turkey, we couldn't do anything about, unless we occupied that area or expelled all the Kurds out of Turkey. Kind of like the wonderful way the British separated The Indians and Pakistanis. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-26-2007, 12:00 PM	#17
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Thanks for that link - Nice of you to add the... "They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here." ...now and not in your original post. Although there are many, I'll add just one more for good measure. *"...help pave the way for a new Iraqi government, a government that will be chosen by the Iraqi people, not by anyone else."*

01-26-2007, 12:34 PM	#18
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	The Iraqi people are too divided to ever unite under a democratic leader.

01-26-2007, 01:54 PM	#20
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Anyone who thought this would take a few weeks and not YEARS was kidding themselves. As we all know now, this is but a part of the war on terror.

01-26-2007, 01:59 PM	#22
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	The war on terror is no different than the war on drugs, It is impossible to win. We can not get everyone in the world to like America and the western world. "War on Terror" is just a catch-phrase that is used by the Bush administration to get people to support their agenda. Do you think the Iraqi police are helping the situation at all? Did you see the video I posted on a different thread? The war isn't Iraq versus America it is Sunni Iraq versus Shiite Iraq and America is caught in the middle.

01-26-2007, 02:45 PM	#27
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I've often thought the same thing. But the argument against that is that Turkey will attack the Kurds if that happens.

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