Football (Soccer) - Page 6

lookout123 · 02-08-2007, 10:29 PM

nope, cops were all huddled inside their little command post goofing around as usual.

the mexico team proved they have no class when they refused to shake hands after the game then they pissed and moaned about how horrible the americans are in their post-game interviews.

King · 02-09-2007, 10:29 AM

I didn't see the game, but it sounds like a pretty good win for the U.S. I think Mexico are a quality side, but you guys seem to keep getting the better of them. Good work.

Undertoad · 02-09-2007, 10:35 AM

Hey King, I was just looking at the Premiership and it's really amazing to me that only 4 teams have won it since 1992. And only three teams really compete for top position. Do you think it'll stay that way? Was it always that way, or is this a more recent thing, with different rules about transfers?

lookout123 · 02-09-2007, 06:07 PM

with the infusion of cash Liverpool is getting they'll regularly bump arsenal now IMO. i think more clubs will start looking for investors to the detriment of their supporters.

King · 02-09-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Hey King, I was just looking at the Premiership and it's really amazing to me that only 4 teams have won it since 1992. And only three teams really compete for top position. Do you think it'll stay that way? Was it always that way, or is this a more recent thing, with different rules about transfers?

Nowadays, it's a 'Big Four', Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. This is probably down to how qualification for the Champions League has been run for the last few years; the top four Premiership teams qualify for the Champions League, and these teams consistently finish in the top four positions. Teams earn a huge amount of money from playing in the Champions League, and so this helps them to stay on top. It wasn't always this way; after Arsene Wenger arrived at Arsenal, it was generally a top two of Manchester United and Arsenal, which Liverpool later broke into, and then Chelsea with the huge investment from Roman Abramovich. It looks like staying this way for the forseeable future. It's difficult to break into the Big Four, but it's not impossible; Everton finished fourth two years ago, and Tottenham were only one game away from doing so last year. It's possible that Bolton or Reading could get in there this year, but it takes more than one good season to shift the balance of power.

Undertoad · 02-10-2007, 09:09 AM

This is fascinating to me, probably not to anyone else.

In the US, things are usually structured so that it's really hard for any one team to remain dominant. In all major sports, the teams at the bottom are given first pick of new players each year. There is never a promotion/relegation system. Every team in the league feels it has the chance, with a few good years, to win the national title.

In American football, basketball, and now I think in hockey, there is a "salary cap" - teams can only spend up to a certain limit on players. Only in baseball can a team spend as much as it wants - and only in baseball are there dominant teams that are expected to lead the league. But baseball is also a very random sport, and subject to a lot of strange whim, so it's impossible to guarantee victory just by spending.

I think it's interesting that in nations that are more socialist, the league setup is less so. And here in capitalistic US, the leagues are run in a socialist way.

I also think it's intersting that where governments are fiercely controlling, the dominant game is soccer which has relatively few rules. You can lean 95% of the rules of soccer in five minutes. The rule book for Am. football is ridiculously huge and requires precision management, with an entire squad of referees, line judges and umpires.

Elspode · 02-10-2007, 12:07 PM

Even with the last place/first draft systems, money is what rules the day in American sports. One need look no further than baseball, where there is very definite and long-term correlation between dollars spent on talent to success on the field.

King · 02-10-2007, 04:10 PM

Most European leagues have traditional big teams; Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, the 'Seven Sisters' in Italy, etc. Money is a factor of course, but I think sometimes it's overstated and used as an excuse for failure; you can get good players for very little, and similarly, you can spend a lot of money on failures. I don't like the idea of salary caps or the draft system being brought into European football. Also, the simplicity of football is part of what makes it great; you can play it anywhere, anytime.

King · 03-03-2007, 05:52 AM

I haven't been able to get on here for a while but I just thought I'd comment on the League Cup Final. Chelsea beat Arsenal's 'League Cup team' (basically Arsenal without the stars) 2-1. It wasn't so much about the Chelsea win though as that was expected, but how good Arsenal's young players continue to be. They did brilliantly to reach the final, beating the full Spurs team and a strong Liverpool team 6-3 on the way, and put up a good show in the final, taking the lead in the first half. If they can find some consistency and toughness, then Arsenal will be unbelievable in 2-3 years I think.

lookout123 · 03-03-2007, 07:44 PM

i agree. that loss, and then the FA cup knockout in one week was heartbreaking. PSV worries me too. a two week period could see the whole season change for Arsenal.

the young gunners really have me excited for the future though. although it wasn't unexpected i was disappointed to hear fabergas say he plans on landing in spain within a few years. he is by far my favorite player.

King · 03-04-2007, 06:55 PM

Yes, it's pretty much season over for them if they go out to PSV. It probably depends on how successful Arsenal are as to whether Cesc stays. If he does then he'll probably become their most important player in a few years. So many quality youngsters though, I'd like a few of them at United.

lookout123 · 03-06-2007, 10:33 AM

yes, because your side is really lacking in quality.

who's that guy? ronal, ronol, ron... anyway, i hear he's got pretty good touch.

wolf · 03-06-2007, 10:51 AM

Last night I was channel surfing and happened upon a game between the Tottenham Hotspurs and West Ham United. The commentators were quite excited about how the game was going ... West Ham was up 2-nil, Tottenham scored to even things up (at least one goal on a penalty kick by a fellow West Ham had traded), and then West Ham scored again to move ahead, much to the delight of the home crowd, whose hopes were eventually dashed by that same traded player, with Tottenham winning 4-3.

Pretty exciting stuff.

King · 03-06-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

yes, because your side is really lacking in quality.

Yes, we have some quality. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like Walcott or Fabregas or Denilson or Flamini etc. etc.

We're better right now, but Arsenal's future is far more secure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Last night I was channel surfing and happened upon a game between the Tottenham Hotspurs and West Ham United. The commentators were quite excited about how the game was going ... West Ham was up 2-nil, Tottenham scored to even things up (at least one goal on a penalty kick by a fellow West Ham had traded), and then West Ham scored again to move ahead, much to the delight of the home crowd, whose hopes were eventually dashed by that same traded player, with Tottenham winning 4-3.

Pretty exciting stuff.

I know, and I missed it live.

West Ham are screwed now. (If they weren't already).

wolf · 03-06-2007, 12:49 PM

When did that game actually play?

02-08-2007, 10:29 PM	#76
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	nope, cops were all huddled inside their little command post goofing around as usual. the mexico team proved they have no class when they refused to shake hands after the game then they pissed and moaned about how horrible the americans are in their post-game interviews. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

02-09-2007, 10:29 AM	#77
King Conquistador Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 259	I didn't see the game, but it sounds like a pretty good win for the U.S. I think Mexico are a quality side, but you guys seem to keep getting the better of them. Good work. __________________ "I've shot you, Jeff. With a bullet made of Scottish finance regulations."

02-09-2007, 06:07 PM	#79
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	with the infusion of cash Liverpool is getting they'll regularly bump arsenal now IMO. i think more clubs will start looking for investors to the detriment of their supporters. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

02-10-2007, 12:07 PM	#82
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Even with the last place/first draft systems, money is what rules the day in American sports. One need look no further than baseball, where there is very definite and long-term correlation between dollars spent on talent to success on the field. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-10-2007, 04:10 PM	#83
King Conquistador Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 259	Most European leagues have traditional big teams; Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, the 'Seven Sisters' in Italy, etc. Money is a factor of course, but I think sometimes it's overstated and used as an excuse for failure; you can get good players for very little, and similarly, you can spend a lot of money on failures. I don't like the idea of salary caps or the draft system being brought into European football. Also, the simplicity of football is part of what makes it great; you can play it anywhere, anytime. __________________ "I've shot you, Jeff. With a bullet made of Scottish finance regulations."

02-09-2007, 10:35 AM	#78
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Hey King, I was just looking at the Premiership and it's really amazing to me that only 4 teams have won it since 1992. And only three teams really compete for top position. Do you think it'll stay that way? Was it always that way, or is this a more recent thing, with different rules about transfers?

02-10-2007, 09:09 AM	#81
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	This is fascinating to me, probably not to anyone else. In the US, things are usually structured so that it's really hard for any one team to remain dominant. In all major sports, the teams at the bottom are given first pick of new players each year. There is never a promotion/relegation system. Every team in the league feels it has the chance, with a few good years, to win the national title. In American football, basketball, and now I think in hockey, there is a "salary cap" - teams can only spend up to a certain limit on players. Only in baseball can a team spend as much as it wants - and only in baseball are there dominant teams that are expected to lead the league. But baseball is also a very random sport, and subject to a lot of strange whim, so it's impossible to guarantee victory just by spending. I think it's interesting that in nations that are more socialist, the league setup is less so. And here in capitalistic US, the leagues are run in a socialist way. I also think it's intersting that where governments are fiercely controlling, the dominant game is soccer which has relatively few rules. You can lean 95% of the rules of soccer in five minutes. The rule book for Am. football is ridiculously huge and requires precision management, with an entire squad of referees, line judges and umpires.

03-03-2007, 05:52 AM	#84
King Conquistador Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 259	I haven't been able to get on here for a while but I just thought I'd comment on the League Cup Final. Chelsea beat Arsenal's 'League Cup team' (basically Arsenal without the stars) 2-1. It wasn't so much about the Chelsea win though as that was expected, but how good Arsenal's young players continue to be. They did brilliantly to reach the final, beating the full Spurs team and a strong Liverpool team 6-3 on the way, and put up a good show in the final, taking the lead in the first half. If they can find some consistency and toughness, then Arsenal will be unbelievable in 2-3 years I think. __________________ "I've shot you, Jeff. With a bullet made of Scottish finance regulations."

03-03-2007, 07:44 PM	#85
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i agree. that loss, and then the FA cup knockout in one week was heartbreaking. PSV worries me too. a two week period could see the whole season change for Arsenal. the young gunners really have me excited for the future though. although it wasn't unexpected i was disappointed to hear fabergas say he plans on landing in spain within a few years. he is by far my favorite player. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-04-2007, 06:55 PM	#86
King Conquistador Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 259	Yes, it's pretty much season over for them if they go out to PSV. It probably depends on how successful Arsenal are as to whether Cesc stays. If he does then he'll probably become their most important player in a few years. So many quality youngsters though, I'd like a few of them at United. __________________ "I've shot you, Jeff. With a bullet made of Scottish finance regulations."

03-06-2007, 10:33 AM	#87
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	yes, because your side is really lacking in quality. who's that guy? ronal, ronol, ron... anyway, i hear he's got pretty good touch. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-06-2007, 10:51 AM	#88
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Last night I was channel surfing and happened upon a game between the Tottenham Hotspurs and West Ham United. The commentators were quite excited about how the game was going ... West Ham was up 2-nil, Tottenham scored to even things up (at least one goal on a penalty kick by a fellow West Ham had traded), and then West Ham scored again to move ahead, much to the delight of the home crowd, whose hopes were eventually dashed by that same traded player, with Tottenham winning 4-3. Pretty exciting stuff. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-06-2007, 12:49 PM	#90
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	When did that game actually play? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

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