Armed America

[busterb]

ok

[Jordan]

If firearms were made illegal and if the police could round up every last one out of the hands of every citizen, the only way for them to get into the hands of criminals would be through our oh-so-tight national borders. Sorta like how the drugs get through on a daily basis, except it would probably be easier to sneak the guns through.

This is the idea you've been proposing is it not, that all firearms be handed over to the police and henceforth be illegal? Theoretically possible, but so is the chance of the Earth getting devoured by a von Neuman machine. Not too likely to occur, but theoretically possible.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Just curious, have you ever killed anyone?

I shot a man in reno, just to watch him die.

Who said I have all those things?

Since they're readily available, you'd be foolish not to and much cheaper than insurance.

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by Jordan

Ouch - Something tells me there might have been more to the story than just that simplified version. Even so, you don't bait someone waving a gun by screaming "shoot me", and you don't go waving a gun at someone just to prove a point.

This is why there are laws about keeping your firearms locked up and secured. The trigger happy SOB should get life in prison and the dead guy's probably been punished enough by now. The jail time won't bring the dead guy back, but maybe he shouldn't have been antagonizing his gun wielding neighbor... Just my $.02

There's nothing more to it. Interesting fact is that it was the gunmans own cam system which recorded the shooting. He installed it to prove that his neighbour was tresspassing his property. Sure tresspassing is a transgression, but certainly not such a felony to kill him? Why not use a dog to keep intruders away?

[Hippikos]

In the case of looters, absolutely.

So you are for the death penalty for thieves? Can't we just chop of their hands?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Nope, no hand chopping, looters die.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

So you are for the death penalty for thieves? Can't we just chop of their hands?

How are you going to catch them?

[Hippikos]

Maybe kill em first and then chop their hands? To be sure?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by rigcranop

...1. Do you think there should be an amendment to the constitution to remove guns from American civilians?

No.

Originally Posted by rigcranop

2. Do you think guns should be legislated out of the hands of American civilians?

No.

Originally Posted by rigcranop

3. Do you think American civilians should voluntarily give up their firearms?

Yes, but only handguns.

Originally Posted by rigcranop

4. Do you think any of the above alternatives will have a major impact on violent crime figures?

Yes

Originally Posted by rigcranop

5. Do you think Americans who are opposed to gun ownership are more civilized than Americans who own guns legally?

No, but they're more civilized than those who use handguns, legally or illegally.

Hope that helps. Let me know if I can answer any more questions.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Jordan

If firearms were made illegal and if the police could round up every last one out of the hands of every citizen,

You want guns so that if you are attacked, or if someone tries to steal something, or if...

Originally Posted by Jordan

the only way for them to get into the hands of criminals would be through our oh-so-tight national borders. Sorta like how the drugs get through on a daily basis, except it would probably be easier to sneak the guns through.

So should we just give up on making drugs and rape illegal, for the same reason?

Originally Posted by Jordan

This is the idea you've been proposing is it not, that all firearms be handed over to the police and henceforth be illegal?

No. Voluntarily give up your HANDGUNS, and keep them legal - it won't matter. If "law abiding" citizens did not have handguns, then criminals will be easily identified and dealt with. Make punishments for misusing a handgun - whether in a crime, an accident, or treating them irresponsibly - a life sentence with no parole, and the use of handguns will dwindle, and hopefully die.

Originally Posted by Jordan

Theoretically possible, but so is the chance of the Earth getting devoured by a von Neuman machine. Not too likely to occur, but theoretically possible.

Probably about the same likelihood that you'll need a gun to protect yourself from harm, huh?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Maybe kill em first and then chop their hands? To be sure?

Is this really Saddam Hussein?

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Is this really Saddam Hussein?

Shhh, only you know it...

[Hippikos]

Theoretically possible, but so is the chance of the Earth getting devoured by a von Neuman machine. Not too likely to occur, but theoretically possible.

Nope, it'll be a HAARP machine

[Jordan]

Bingo! you're catching on. If I am attacked or if I were to be robbed again, I would have the ability to defend myself. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not a raving bloodthirsty flesh eating gun rights fanatic, merely another human being looking out for myself and my property.

I believe I answered this ludicrous statement before.

You say that the criminal would be easily identifiable. How? How would the criminal be easily identifiable before he pulls his weapon? They don't all run about in black masks and waving Tommy guns in the air. You can't be sure that a person is a criminal and out to do you harm until they voice their threat.

Seeing as how I've already been in a situation where a firearm came in handy against 3-1 odds, I'm already 100% ahead of your game on this topic.

Question: Because the majority of rapists are male, should all men have to give up their penises?

Question: Because all D.U.I.s only when you mix alcohol and vehicles, should we ban cars or alcohol?

Responsibility lies with the owner and operator, not with an inanimate object.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Jordan

Bingo! you're catching on. If I am attacked or if I were to be robbed again, I would have the ability to defend myself. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not a raving bloodthirsty flesh eating gun rights fanatic, merely another human being looking out for myself and my property.

I wasn't arguing that. The point that you missed was that your needing a gun to defend yourself is as likely as the police being able to "round up every last one out of the hands of every citizen".

Originally Posted by Jordan

You say that the criminal would be easily identifiable. How?

They'll be the ones with the handguns.

Originally Posted by Jordan

How would the criminal be easily identifiable before he pulls his weapon? They don't all run about in black masks and waving Tommy guns in the air. You can't be sure that a person is a criminal and out to do you harm until they voice their threat.

How can you tell anyone is a criminal before he commits a crime? A rapist doesn't wear a mask, nor does an embezzler, yet those activities are illegal, aren't they. The handgun-using criminal will be easily identified as a criminal when they draw their handgun, and maybe can be dealt with before they use the handgun. Why will it be easier to identify a criminal? Because there'll be no question that the guy with the handgun in his hand might be a law abiding citizen just drawing his handgun for perfectly legal reasons - if he has a handgun, he's a criminal. No brainer.

Originally Posted by Jordan

Seeing as how I've already been in a situation where a firearm came in handy against 3-1 odds, I'm already 100% ahead of your game on this topic.

How old are you? How many times? Do the math: once every "X" years you'll need some sort of protection, and it doesn't have to be a handgun. And remember, the next time you shoot into the ground, one of the generator-stealing-gun-in-the-truck guys might have his handgun with him, and turn and fire, killing you before you get anything but the warning shot off. And then there's your family and loved ones, without you, because you had to reserve the right to have a handgun, which makes it easier for the generator stealers to have a handgun. All this over a generator that you use once every 2-3 years. Hmmmmm. Is it worth it?

Originally Posted by Jordan

Question: Because the majority of rapists are male, should all men have to give up their penises?

No. Penises have other uses, handguns don't. And even misused penises don't kill people. Have you ever heard of someone being "dicked to death"?

Originally Posted by Jordan

Question: Because all D.U.I.s only when you mix alcohol and vehicles, should we ban cars or alcohol?

Just the combination of the two. They each have other uses, handguns don't.

Originally Posted by Jordan

Responsibility lies with the owner and operator, not with an inanimate object.

And consider yourself partially responsible for allowing handguns to be owned and operated by irresponsible people.