What do u wonder about CHINA ? - Page 3

Undertoad · 05-12-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

How do you think if I tell you that I am a Chinese Communist Party member?

It saddens me, because the Communist Party is an enemy to freedom. But I do not think worse of you for joining it.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-12-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

The red are new RMB and the blue are old. Give you as one gift.

Thanks, but no thanks. You better save them in case you get a visa.

Since the Communist Party is the only party, being a member is the only way to have ANY input into how things are run. I was taught in school that in the CCP the power comes from the top but maybe ideas and attitude can worm there way up from the bottom. It's better than doing nothing.
And maybe the party has groupies.

elSicomoro · 05-12-2003, 04:08 PM

If China's CP is anything like Cuba's, joining the party is the only way to really get anything, so I wouldn't fault someone for doing it.

alamuhan · 05-12-2003, 06:20 PM

It's not fair to conclude " the Communist Party is an enemy to freedom". I don't know how do u get to that, maybe it has something to do with our 1960's "Culture Revolution"
and , that's the main reason , our propaganda and yours.

Things have changed during these decades. Yes , we do have our own problems , we r working hard on them and want communication and comprehension. Chairman Mao -- sorry,he's a C.P,too --

said: the only way to know what pear taste is to taste it by yourself. So ,if possible , come HERE and see what u want,but not now-- we r suffing SARS.I wish it wouldn't be long to welcome u to my country.

By the way ,my girlfriend is a C.P too ,i feel well all the time!

Billy · 05-12-2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
It saddens me, because the Communist Party is an enemy to freedom. But I do not think worse of you for joining it.

You misunderstand the Chinese Communist Party. The CCP led us to drive the colonists away, die out feudalism system and bulid new R.R China. The China people feel that we are free since the new People's Republic of China bulit. According to their doing, they helped us to gain freedom. Now they are still doing that. But we think the freedom is not same as you have. You use your standard to judge our freedom. It is unfair.

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Since the Communist Party is the only party, being a member is the only way to have ANY input into how things are run. I was taught in school that in the CCP the power comes from the top but maybe ideas and attitude can worm there way up from the bottom. It's better than doing nothing.And maybe the party has groupies.

The CCP is not only party in China. We have other eight democracy parties. They have helped government to administer the national affair.

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
If China's CP is anything like Cuba's, joining the party is the only way to really get anything, so I wouldn't fault someone for doing it.

The CCP are trying to bulid a democracy and freedom country. At least we have a speed economy, not poor as that oof ago. There are many party pioneers to encourage us to go ahead.

Undertoad · 05-12-2003, 08:19 PM

OK. Just a reminder, though. If you see a question on the TOEFL about the word "freedom", they want you to use my definition, not yours.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-12-2003, 10:14 PM

Quote:

According to their doing, they helped us to gain freedom. Now they are still doing that. But we think the freedom is not same as you have. You use your standard to judge our freedom. It is unfair.

whoa Billy.
I know it's not your main language but, when you use english to communicate, the word freedom has a defined meaning. That's what a dictionary is for.
Sure, we compare (judge) how much freedom you have by what we learn about how people live in China. We learn this from many sources. By coming to the Cellar you give us another source.
In the US we have lost some freedoms just because of the population density. Sometimes they pass laws so that really stupid people don't hurt anyone else. BUT, compared to other places in the world, we still have a great deal of freedom.
To say it is unfair to compare(judge) how much freedom you have in China, to what we have, is not true. There is nothing unfair about making comparisons.
You may have 10 times as much freedom as you had a few years ago but you still have a ways to go. There are a lot of countries that give their people more freedom than China.
That's not being judgemental or unfair. Simply comparing.
There are countries that have more freedom and a lower standard of living. Freedom does not guarantee a full belly.

Billy · 05-12-2003, 10:37 PM

I know what you say. Maybe I misunderstood your freedom. you gave me a lesson. We feel free compare our past. Freedom that you say is compared to other countries. I think it the difference. In TOEFL test we can not shoy any politics, discrimination. I think we have very long way to go to get the real and more freedom. The people should strive for freedom. No one can not give you if you strive for it. I don't know if I should emigrate from China to other countries for freedom. Or I stay in China to struggle for freedom.

In China the government is afriad that the west "freedom" would destroy China saftey and make socialism into capitalism. We fear we would have one second "Culture Revolution". In that time the people have too much freedom to battle other people, not enjoy freedom. No law protects individual freedom. We heavily look up on collective freedom. Only when we have and follow the laws, we can have the freedom.

Undertoad · 05-12-2003, 11:24 PM

If you need to see the difference between Communism and Capitalism, just look at North and South Korea.

An identical people, with identical culture. South Korea is thriving, exporting sophisticated products, becoming rich. Producing computer parts that compete in quality with Japan.

North Korea is completely dependent on gifts from other nations, exports only prohibited weapons and drugs, and 2 million of its people may die of hunger this year.

I don't know if North Koreans feel this "collective freedom" that you speak of. I know there will be fewer of them to feel anything soon. I know that free countries do not suffer famines and that India produced enough for its people only after it de-nationalized the farmers.

elSicomoro · 05-12-2003, 11:52 PM

Don't forget that North Korea uses the traditional Korean alphabet, while South Korea adds Chinese characters in their alphabet.

(Sorry...had to throw that in there.)

BrianR · 05-13-2003, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billy
In China the government is afriad that the west "freedom" would destroy China saftey and make socialism into capitalism. We fear we would have one second "Culture Revolution". In that time the people have too much freedom to battle other people, not enjoy freedom. No law protects individual freedom. We heavily look up on collective freedom. Only when we have and follow the laws, we can have the freedom.

Would more freedom and more capitalism be a BAD thing? It seems to me that to allow one's people to create their OWN wealth, taking advantage of the limitless opportunity of a free and open market is always a good thing. As long as there is a financial incentive to do so, namely making (and keeping) a profit. This is the heart of the capitalist way. Seems to work for us, as long as the government keeps out of the way. But that's another story.

Brian

xoxoxoBruce · 05-13-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

The CCP is not only party in China. We have other eight democracy parties. They have helped government to administer the national affair.

What!

No kidding, what are they? Where are they? How big are they? What do they do? Do you have elections? If so, for what level office? Tell me more.

Billy · 05-13-2003, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
What are they? Where are they? How big are they? What do they do? Do you have elections? If so, for what level office? Tell me more.

They distribute all over China. The qantity is very smaller than the CCP. They supervise the CCP work. It is very difficult to apply to join the Parties. I don't how to translate their name into English. I know little about them. I have posted your problem in Chinese web. I will reply you if I search more information. I am sorry for that.

Billy · 05-14-2003, 01:02 AM

The offiical page shows the System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation for your information.System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation

alamuhan · 05-14-2003, 01:28 AM

Shall we go on at "Socialism Vs Capitalism" ?

05-12-2003, 10:37 PM	#38
Billy Professor Join Date: May 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,462	I misunderstood "Freedom" I know what you say. Maybe I misunderstood your freedom. you gave me a lesson. We feel free compare our past. Freedom that you say is compared to other countries. I think it the difference. In TOEFL test we can not shoy any politics, discrimination. I think we have very long way to go to get the real and more freedom. The people should strive for freedom. No one can not give you if you strive for it. I don't know if I should emigrate from China to other countries for freedom. Or I stay in China to struggle for freedom. In China the government is afriad that the west "freedom" would destroy China saftey and make socialism into capitalism. We fear we would have one second "Culture Revolution". In that time the people have too much freedom to battle other people, not enjoy freedom. No law protects individual freedom. We heavily look up on collective freedom. Only when we have and follow the laws, we can have the freedom.

05-14-2003, 01:02 AM	#44
Billy Professor Join Date: May 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,462	The China System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation The offiical page shows the System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation for your information.System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation

05-14-2003, 01:28 AM	#45
alamuhan Romantic Necromancer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CN Posts: 29	Shall we go on at "Socialism Vs Capitalism" ? Last edited by alamuhan; 05-14-2003 at 01:47 AM.

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05-12-2003, 04:08 PM	#33
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	If China's CP is anything like Cuba's, joining the party is the only way to really get anything, so I wouldn't fault someone for doing it.

05-12-2003, 06:20 PM	#34
alamuhan Romantic Necromancer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CN Posts: 29	It's not fair to conclude " the Communist Party is an enemy to freedom". I don't know how do u get to that, maybe it has something to do with our 1960's "Culture Revolution" and , that's the main reason , our propaganda and yours. Things have changed during these decades. Yes , we do have our own problems , we r working hard on them and want communication and comprehension. Chairman Mao -- sorry,he's a C.P,too -- said: the only way to know what pear taste is to taste it by yourself. So ,if possible , come HERE and see what u want,but not now-- we r suffing SARS.I wish it wouldn't be long to welcome u to my country. By the way ,my girlfriend is a C.P too ,i feel well all the time!

05-12-2003, 08:19 PM	#36
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	OK. Just a reminder, though. If you see a question on the TOEFL about the word "freedom", they want you to use my definition, not yours.

05-12-2003, 11:24 PM	#39
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If you need to see the difference between Communism and Capitalism, just look at North and South Korea. An identical people, with identical culture. South Korea is thriving, exporting sophisticated products, becoming rich. Producing computer parts that compete in quality with Japan. North Korea is completely dependent on gifts from other nations, exports only prohibited weapons and drugs, and 2 million of its people may die of hunger this year. I don't know if North Koreans feel this "collective freedom" that you speak of. I know there will be fewer of them to feel anything soon. I know that free countries do not suffer famines and that India produced enough for its people only after it de-nationalized the farmers.

05-12-2003, 11:52 PM	#40
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Don't forget that North Korea uses the traditional Korean alphabet, while South Korea adds Chinese characters in their alphabet. (Sorry...had to throw that in there.)

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