Gas Prices: Who's to Blame?

[HungLikeJesus]

I just read spudcon's comment, then saw this in an article on denverpost.com:

"Sixty-two dollars," Teresa Avila said to no one in particular.

"They want $62. Sixty-two frigging dollars of my money that I definitely can't afford," she continued when realizing she had an audience. "I could do a lot with $62. A whole lot. Sixty-two dollars. I can't believe it. Can you believe it? I can't believe it."

And so it went at a central Denver gas station Monday morning as Avila spent a day's worth of net pay to top off her Dodge Caravan.

The 50-something, self-described "cleaning lady and grandma" was fuming to strangers about oil companies and car companies, George Bush and Dick Cheney and "politicians getting rich off the backs of working people." The term "rip-off" passed her lips more than once during her tirade, as did several expletives not fit for a family newspaper. ...

Maybe she'll come here and vote in our poll.

[TheMercenary]

Yea, I agree, Bush. Well not really because that is sort of stupid. Like Pelosi is sort of pulling a Cheney (ala 9/11 and Iraq) and trying to link Bush/Cheney to the price of gas, if she repeats it enough people will begin to believe it.

I just had to vote for myself, cause, well it was there.

This was a very good example why the price is to high (hit listen now and enjoy):

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91573893

[HungLikeJesus]

TheMercenary, I was hoping someone would vote for you.

I don't think prices are too high - I think they could go a little higher.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

I just read spudcon's comment, then saw this in an article on denverpost.com:

Maybe she'll come here and vote in our poll.

"George Bush and Dick Cheney and "politicians getting rich off the backs of working people." Her anger is misplaced IMHO, but it is a convenient excuse for people when they are unsatisfied with the current executive branch.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

TheMercenary, I was hoping someone would vote for you.

I don't think prices are too high - I think they could go a little higher.

Check out my NPR link. I think it was very good at exposing both sides of the extreme and the rationality of some recent proposals.

[headsplice]

All of the above. Maybe with different discriminations than UT, but still. No one is blameless here.
Also, I heard that gasoline prices on the continent hit EU1.99/liter. That translates too...$17.96/gallon. So us USians should stop bitching

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by headsplice

All of the above. Maybe with different discriminations than UT, but still. No one is blameless here.
Also, I heard that gasoline prices on the continent hit EU1.99/liter. That translates too...$17.96/gallon. So us USians should stop bitching

At 1.55 euro/dollar, I get $11.73/gal - still quite high.

Can anyone confirm the 1.99 euro/liter price?

[Sundae]

Environmental issues are taken more seriously in Europe, and public transport is better. Fuel revenues also pay for social care that you pay for separately.

Yes we pay more (far more) but you can't make a straight comparison because of the above. Not having a car (and not living in continental Europe anyway) I can't confirm or deny the prices. I know everyone moans about them though.

[Perry Winkle]

I read that the primary cause is basic supply and demand economics and that the low USD value is compounding the problem. I'll have to find the article tomorrow, but it's by a Nobel Laureate economist, so it's fairly reputable...

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Can anyone confirm the 1.99 euro/liter price?

There were "gougers"* trying to charge £1.99 in parts of the UK (there was a fuel delivery strike), according to the BBC.

* If the market will bear the cost how is that wrong? People who cry gouging seem to be the same ones who cry about life being unfair.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

apparently, the price is set when they hit the dock, not when they leave the home port. how fucked up is that?

That pricing is why free markets work so effectively. You would have us implement socialism, communism, or government subsidized prices?

Fictional example of speculation: Market parameters suggest that a severe oil shortage will exist this winter. But oil is currently plentiful. So we should keep oil prices down? Yes according to those foolishly blaming speculation (as promoted by extremist propaganda). Of course not if one believes in free markets.

With plentiful oil, only market prices can send proper messages throughout an economy. Even though oil is plentiful, speculators (working for the benefit of all) run prices up. The market now conserves all summer as instructed by market prices. Then vehicles and homes still have oil six months later.

Speculators are why prices send useful and constructive messages throughout an economy. Speculators are also blamed because 'Karl Rove' types broadcast more Rush Limbaugh propaganda. It works on the naive. Blame someone else. Those who don't understand or appreciate free markets will blindly believe propaganda - blame the speculators.

Those who understand, appreciate, learn, and advocate a free market knew immediately that speculators are the 'good' market forces being blamed by ignorant and self-serving political types. Propagandists directed this 'blame the speculators' message to same people who believed Saddam had WMDs.

Blame the speculators. Then another major reason for higher oil prices - ie falling dollar - is not blamed. A most significant reason for a 60% depreciated dollar: George Jr's administration including tax cuts, "Mission Accomplished", massive government spending including corporate welfare, fiscal mismanagement, encouraging Enron style accounting, protecting 40% too high drug prices, inflation, cost of living increases created by 'stimulating the economy', and other problems that have not yet hit the headlines. Most of the world is not suffering such massive price increases found in America.

Better to tell the naive how to think: blame speculators so that other reasons (ie falling dollar, uncooperative allies who are tired of America blaming everyone else, administration efforts to keep mileage standard down and make passenger cars heavier, etc) does not get blamed. Government that can create bogeymen does not get blamed.

Often those barges are queued; not waiting for price increases. We have burned all the good stuff. Oil all over the world is being held because of sour or heavy type. For example, we must now burn Caspian Sea oil - some of the most sour. The world was built mostly for light sweet crude and assumptions that oil companies will continue to keep prices so low and oil supplies high by innovating. We burned up all the easy stuff as if it would always exist.

Saudi Arabia managed to find another 10 million barrels to add to their exports. IOW a zero increase because Saudi Arabia has no more oil to export. We kept asking the Saudis to increase production while making zero effort to use that oil more efficiently (see repeated posts about the 70 Hp/Liter engine as one example). Reality, as predicted by T Boone Pickens in the 1970s, is now taking revenge.

Who do we blame? People who were warning of this problem for generations? People who stifled innovation to maximize profits? Or the larger number (most of us) who denied all this was coming - even ignored the same history lessons from the 1970s.

[lookout123]

I blame the bean counters at GM. They should have listened to the electrical engineer who emailed his application in on a weekly basis.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lookout123

I blame the bean counters at GM. They should have listened to the electrical engineer who emailed his application in on a weekly basis.

Back then (when the problem was being created), email did not exist.

[TheMercenary]

I blame Al Gore. He invented the internet.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by tw

(see repeated posts about the 70 Hp/Liter engine as one example).

Debunked. You have provided no support for this statement.