SCOTUS Grants Guantanamo Prisoners Habeas Corpus

[DanaC]

flaja: from the New York Times article you linked to -

The protests, in at least four cities, remained relatively small, but radical Muslim groups said they were preparing larger demonstrations and repeated their warnings that they might attack foreigners here.

Indonesia is a largely moderate Muslim country and President Megawati Sukarnoputri has announced her qualified support for the United States in its campaign against terrorism in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington. But the anger of the fringe groups that are holding demonstrations reflects a broad resentment of the United States and opposition to its bombing of Afghanistan.

So far violent opposition to America is comparitively small. Beyond the hardline moslem fringe, anger at America is felt by ordinary people, because of America's actions not because those ordinary people are moslem. The same can be said of Britain, where there have been noisy demonstrations accompanying every visit by Bush. The demonstrations over here have involved a handful of extremists but mainly it's been ordinary people, many non-moslems, protesting America's foreign policy.

Do you really believe Moslems hate America, because they are moslem? Do you really believe all moslems are anti-jewish, because they are moslem? You are generalising about a huge percentage of the global population. Not only that you are over-simplifying the reasons why someone might hold those views. America is active in the world, and as such her actions have effects and consequences. Israel's actions also have an effect on the world and the way in which she is viewed by some.


Just to underline the point, here is a quote from the bottom of the article:

Christina Widyaningsih, 24, a university student who is a Christian, said: ''I don't really understand the Islamic movement, but I can definitely sympathize with their restlessness, their feeling that they have to do something. Yes, innocent lives were lost in the attack on the World Trade Center. But do the Americans really think their retaliation will solve the problem? I think resentment toward the United States and its Western allies will only grow.''

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

The same can be said of Britain, where there have been noisy demonstrations accompanying every visit by Bush. The demonstrations over here have involved a handful of extremists but mainly it's been ordinary people, many non-moslems, protesting America's foreign policy.

Not really different from here.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The Constitution is for US citizens alone.

Give me something other than your opinion as proof of this fact.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I am still waiting for you to cite where the United States Constitution applies to all people of the world who are not citizens of the United States.

Amendment 5 where it says “no person" rather than "no citizen".

[flaja]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Well, flaja, you could start by reading up on the Semitic language family and their internal resemblances. And be very careful about bellowing "Nazi!" -- this lot will invoke Godwin's Law of Flame Fights at the drop of an eyeshade (come to think of it, an eyepatch), let alone the drop of a hat.

LookLex

Semitic Languages (and Phoenician)

I guess by your logic everybody that speaks English must be a German because both languages are in the same language family. And then the French, Spanish and Italians must all be one and the same people because they all use a Romance Language.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by DanaC

So far violent opposition to America is comparitively small.

But it still exists, thus negating any claim that Indonesia is not anti-America.

[DanaC]

In that case, Britain is anti-American, because such opposition exists here. You cannot characterise a country as anti-american because it contains anti-american elements.

[spudcon]

You'd also have to say America is anti American, because there are those types here.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by flaja

Amendment 5 where it says “no person" rather than "no citizen".

Show me where the intent was to include all peoples of the world who are not US Citizens. You can't. That is only your opinion.

[BigV]

srsly?

How much closer to "intent" can you get than the original text? You're right. You can't be shown. But not because *flaja's* opinion is the obstacle.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by DanaC

In that case, Britain is anti-American, because such opposition exists here. You cannot characterise a country as anti-american because it contains anti-american elements.

Why not?

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Show me where the intent was to include all peoples of the world who are not US Citizens. You can't. That is only your opinion.

I will accept your opinion that Constitutional legal due process rights do not apply to non-citizens if you can document that the government did not recognize such rights when the first non-citizen (whoever he was) was charged with violating U.S. law under the Constitution.

BTW: You still haven’t clarified whether or not the U.S. can deny non-citizen their inalienable right to life and liberty without extending them legal due process rights.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by BigV

srsly?

How much closer to "intent" can you get than the original text? You're right. You can't be shown. But not because *flaja's* opinion is the obstacle.

How could the Constitution make a distinction between citizens and all other persons, in 1787 when it did not define what a citizen is until the 14th Amendment?

And if Constitutional rights applied only to citizens, why does the document have to specify that only citizens can hold federal elective office?

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by DanaC

In that case, Britain is anti-American, because such opposition exists here. You cannot characterise a country as anti-american because it contains anti-american elements.

Originally Posted by flaja

Why not?

Originally Posted by spudcon

You'd also have to say America is anti American, because there are those types here.

It's true.
The whole world is anti-American.
Even the uncontacted tribes in Brazil/ Peru shake their sticks at you.
Even the water on Mars hates you.

Everybody now:
"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me
Think I'll go and eat wooooorms..."

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

It's true.
The whole world is anti-American.
..."

Yeah...even me. Just ask anyone in 'the clique'.