Atheism = No Spiritual Dimensions To Reality?

Ruminator · 12-13-2008, 03:17 PM

I just had a personal realization- that I've been laboring under an assumption.

And that is simply that all atheists by definition cannot believe in any "spiritual dimensions", "spirit realm", or however you would define it.

In thinking about it more deeply, I can see how that may be an oversimplification.

Do any of you know more about this?

* - this thought line came up as a result of the Ouija board thread in the Parenting forum.

Flint · 12-13-2008, 03:29 PM

I see atheism as an "against" position, i.e. "against" a description of reality as defined by another belief system. To me, this appears to allow the statement of one's position to be defined by the opposition. An atheist is defined by the existence of theism. Insomuch as atheism is a belief system, it is defined by the characteristis of theism. . . . To me, this is not a thinking person's position. It is, at most, a picket sign.

Cicero · 12-13-2008, 04:09 PM

Ruminator, you are right.
The atheists I have known are not given to believing in anything like a spiritual realm. At all. I am not sure why this would bother anyone else.

Happy Monkey · 12-13-2008, 04:17 PM

It's not so much "against" as "lack of". You can also be "against" but it isn't necessary. It is defined by theism in the same way that "gentile" is defined by Judaism. Before Judaism, everyone was gentile, but there was no need for a word for it. "Gentile" isn't a worldview or a belief system, and neither is "atheist".

Atheists are likely to reject all "spiritual" explanations for phenomena, but the only thing that is atheist by definition is the lack of belief in deities.

jinx · 12-13-2008, 04:26 PM

I consider myself an atheist because there are no gods I believe in.

The spiritual world doesn't really interest me, I'm pretty happy just checking out the natural world. The spirituality of others doesn't offend me in any way, but like I said to Els the other night, it just seems like roll playing games to me.

Flint · 12-13-2008, 04:51 PM

To qualify my previous statements: I would say that a person who identifies themselves as a "hardcore athiest" is going to great lengths to disassociate themselves from an established belief system; and making little statement towards what their own personal belief system is.

I am less interested in being a member of the "2 + 2 is NOT 5 like they said" club, than the "2 + 2 IS 4 and here's why" club.

DanaC · 12-13-2008, 05:06 PM

It's just about redressing the balance, Flint. If the status quo were not such that atheism is by its nature suspect to many people, and religion underpins much of society, 'hardcore atheists' would not feel the need to bang a drum.

It's less about the strength of belief than it is about the vehemence of that belief, in the face of a world that is primarily theistic in nature and hostile to atheism.

Flint · 12-13-2008, 05:08 PM

You're right. I agree.

ZenGum · 12-13-2008, 06:19 PM

I think it is possible for an Atheist to believe in some spiritual dimensions to reality.

Atheism is the denial of the existence of a particular kind of being: A Theos, a theistic deity, i.e an immanent, transcendental god.

This does not necessarily rule out other "spiritual" beliefs - ghosts, reincarnation, spirits and spirit guides, karma, animist spirits, nature spirits, magic etc etc.

Of course most Atheists don't believe in such things, but there is room for it.

HungLikeJesus · 12-13-2008, 06:37 PM

The spirits that I know, and most fear, are usually seen in the bottom of a glass.

footfootfoot · 12-13-2008, 07:14 PM

A (with out, lacking) Theism (Belief in a deity)

smoothmoniker · 12-13-2008, 11:26 PM

Someone who believes that there is no spiritual dimension to reality is a materialist - everything that exists can be described as purely natural, and nothing that it is outside of the physical world participates in the causal chain.

All materialists are by definition atheists, but not all atheists are materialists.

Cicero · 12-14-2008, 12:51 AM

I dunno. They say they aren't (materialists). But there is no proof. But I have also been an atheist.

DanaC · 12-14-2008, 04:32 AM

I don't believe in the supernatural. I don't believe in re-incarnation, an afterlife, or spirits...because it seems unlikely; based more on what is desirable than an explanation for what is. Were these things to exist then we would have to redraw the bounds of nature to incorporate them. I see no need to have a supernatural explanation for anything that exists.

Perry Winkle · 12-14-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

It's not so much "against" as "lack of". You can also be "against" but it isn't necessary. It is defined by theism in the same way that "gentile" is defined by Judaism. Before Judaism, everyone was gentile, but there was no need for a word for it. "Gentile" isn't a worldview or a belief system, and neither is "atheist".

I think that's a bad analogy for the theist/atheist comparison. Gentile is a label for an out group, not an in-group appellation. The atheists I know label themselves such, while no gentile I know uses that label unless referring to themselves from a Jewish perspective.

12-13-2008, 03:17 PM	#1
Ruminator Ohio fisherman Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 117	Atheism = No Spiritual Dimensions To Reality? I just had a personal realization- that I've been laboring under an assumption. And that is simply that all atheists by definition cannot believe in any "spiritual dimensions", "spirit realm", or however you would define it. In thinking about it more deeply, I can see how that may be an oversimplification. Do any of you know more about this? * - this thought line came up as a result of the Ouija board thread in the Parenting forum. __________________ ~ Perception is vital, reality is irrelevant... or is it? ~ "People never give each other enough credit for their contributions." ... a truer statement was never made. - contributed by TheMercenary

12-13-2008, 03:29 PM	#2
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I see atheism as an "against" position, i.e. "against" a description of reality as defined by another belief system. To me, this appears to allow the statement of one's position to be defined by the opposition. An atheist is defined by the existence of theism. Insomuch as atheism is a belief system, it is defined by the characteristis of theism. . . . To me, this is not a thinking person's position. It is, at most, a picket sign. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-13-2008, 04:09 PM	#3
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Ruminator, you are right. The atheists I have known are not given to believing in anything like a spiritual realm. At all. I am not sure why this would bother anyone else. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

12-13-2008, 04:17 PM	#4
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	It's not so much "against" as "lack of". You can also be "against" but it isn't necessary. It is defined by theism in the same way that "gentile" is defined by Judaism. Before Judaism, everyone was gentile, but there was no need for a word for it. "Gentile" isn't a worldview or a belief system, and neither is "atheist". Atheists are likely to reject all "spiritual" explanations for phenomena, but the only thing that is atheist by definition is the lack of belief in deities. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

12-13-2008, 04:26 PM	#5
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	I consider myself an atheist because there are no gods I believe in. The spiritual world doesn't really interest me, I'm pretty happy just checking out the natural world. The spirituality of others doesn't offend me in any way, but like I said to Els the other night, it just seems like roll playing games to me. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

12-13-2008, 04:51 PM	#6
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	To qualify my previous statements: I would say that a person who identifies themselves as a "hardcore athiest" is going to great lengths to disassociate themselves from an established belief system; and making little statement towards what their own personal belief system is. I am less interested in being a member of the "2 + 2 is NOT 5 like they said" club, than the "2 + 2 IS 4 and here's why" club. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-13-2008, 05:06 PM	#7
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	It's just about redressing the balance, Flint. If the status quo were not such that atheism is by its nature suspect to many people, and religion underpins much of society, 'hardcore atheists' would not feel the need to bang a drum. It's less about the strength of belief than it is about the vehemence of that belief, in the face of a world that is primarily theistic in nature and hostile to atheism.

12-13-2008, 05:08 PM	#8
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	You're right. I agree. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-13-2008, 06:19 PM	#9
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	I think it is possible for an Atheist to believe in some spiritual dimensions to reality. Atheism is the denial of the existence of a particular kind of being: A Theos, a theistic deity, i.e an immanent, transcendental god. This does not necessarily rule out other "spiritual" beliefs - ghosts, reincarnation, spirits and spirit guides, karma, animist spirits, nature spirits, magic etc etc. Of course most Atheists don't believe in such things, but there is room for it. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

12-13-2008, 06:37 PM	#10
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	The spirits that I know, and most fear, are usually seen in the bottom of a glass. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

12-13-2008, 07:14 PM	#11
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	A (with out, lacking) Theism (Belief in a deity) __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

12-13-2008, 11:26 PM	#12
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	Someone who believes that there is no spiritual dimension to reality is a materialist - everything that exists can be described as purely natural, and nothing that it is outside of the physical world participates in the causal chain. All materialists are by definition atheists, but not all atheists are materialists. __________________ to live and die in LA

12-14-2008, 12:51 AM	#13
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	I dunno. They say they aren't (materialists). But there is no proof. But I have also been an atheist. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

12-14-2008, 04:32 AM	#14
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I don't believe in the supernatural. I don't believe in re-incarnation, an afterlife, or spirits...because it seems unlikely; based more on what is desirable than an explanation for what is. Were these things to exist then we would have to redraw the bounds of nature to incorporate them. I see no need to have a supernatural explanation for anything that exists.

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