The Obamanation

[classicman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I don't care about being rich. Many people don't care about being rich. They do care about having a good quality of life, where they can afford to live and pay their bills and make their obligations, and save a little for later in life, and still have some money left over to have some fun, and people should be able to that without having to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.

There is a cost for "not being rich" If you want all that goes with it, you have to make the sacrifices to reap the rewards.

Originally Posted by sugarpop

People should not have to live paycheck to paycheck, no matter what job they do.
You can't argue that we have the greatest country when so many people, people who work hard, are struggling just to survive.

There is no utopia - it doesn't exist. I agree though this doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards this goal, but if you want, you have to earn. Your "I'm entitled to all these wonderful things just because I exist" is a mentality that I disagree with.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I don't care about being rich.

I forgot my /sarcasm tags.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by lookout123

No we don't. We have the ability to raise incomes across the board, thus bringing everyone above the current poverty line. Yippee! oh wait, what was the definition of inflation again? If minimum wage is $50K/year, within a short period of time it will cost $60K to be above the poverty line. That is how it works, like it or not.

It does not have to work like that.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

There is a cost for "not being rich" If you want all that goes with it, you have to make the sacrifices to reap the rewards.

There is no utopia - it doesn't exist. I agree though this doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards this goal, but if you want, you have to earn. Your "I'm entitled to all these wonderful things just because I exist" is a mentality that I disagree with.

What is the cost for not being rich? Not being able to own a big yatch or an expensive sports car, or not being able to go skiing in Switzerland every year? I'm not even talking about that stuff. I'm talking about people who work their ASS off, and still have trouble affording food and health care and the necessities of life.

People should be able to have a decent job, and if they work hard, they should be paid well enough to afford nutritious food, and since we don't want government health care in this country, then they should be paid enough to afford a GOOD insurance policy that completely covers them and their family (if they have one), and they should be able to afford to buy new clothes/shoes once in a while, and their utilities and a phone, and some kind of transportation (even if it's a bicycle), and to go out to dinner once in a while, maybe once every couple of months, or to see a movie, and they should be paid enough to save a little.

Now I am not stupid. I know that, even if we paid everyone well enough to afford those things, some people still would not manage their money well. But what has gone on in this country for the past 30 years is not about that, it's about people being left completely behind. There IS plenty of money for everyone, if the people at the top would just be a little less greedy.

The truth is, the GAP between the top and bottom has grown horribly over the past 30 years. CEO pay has skyrocketed, while pay for the middle class has remained stagnant or grown very little. Why is it OK with you for the pay to jump so damn much at the top, and to remain the same for everyone else? Don't you see the unfairness of that? Not only that, don't you see the unsustainability of it? I honestly do not get the reasoning of people like you, who cheer for the uber wealthy, while demonizing the majority of Americans. In this country, CEOs used to earn 30x more than the average worker, which is close to what it is in other countries right now, higher even, NOW, a CEO earns around 500x more. What makes you think that is OK? Why was it OK for Carly Fiorina to walk away from HP with millions of dollars after she ran the company into the ground? Why is it OK for CEOs to take giant sums of money in bonuses while they lay people off and cut their benefits? Good grief!

[TheMercenary]

Warning: Thread Drift.

Where does this end? I guess since the Bush twins and Palin's daughter were attacked and followed in the press for their growing pains, so is Biden's daughter. We learned during the last election cycle that the press knows no bounds in the BS they can publish. Now rumors about Biden's daughter, who btw is 27 years old and a completely independent adult, was caught on tape doing cocaine. So do you get to be famous by proxy? It would seem so.

[classicman]

I heard about this too.

One link I found had this in it.

The video showed a woman resembling the Vice-President's daughter taking a red straw from her mouth, bending over a desk, inserting the straw into her nostril and snorting lines of white powder.

The woman then stands up and starts talking with other people in the room as a young man - identified as her boyfriend - watches from behind.

“At one point she pretty much complains that the line isn't big enough,” one told the newspaper. “And she talks about her dad.”
~~~~~~~~~
Radaronline.com, an online gossip site, said that one of its freelance reporters had also viewed the video.

It described a man cutting up five lines of what is said to be cocaine, as the woman claimed to be Ms Biden jokes that the lines are not big enough.

The man hands her a rolled-up dollar bill and she pulls back her hair and snorts a line. After she snorts the first line, she lifts her head to wipe her nose and then snorts a second and third line.

Bold mine - Note that in the first description it's a red straw and in the second its a rolled bill.

I don't really care what she does, just like I didn't care about what Palin's kids did. All media hype.
Asan aside, I'll bet that video gets a good buck though.

[TheMercenary]

Yea, but you know in the pre-election phase the press and liberal media outlets liked to hold Palin's daughters private life as if Palin failed as a mother or could not control her daughter which contrasted with Palin's christian conservative views she preached about on the road to the election. Who control's a 17 year old and what they do? Biden's daughter is 27. This has nothing to do with Biden the VP.

[TGRR]

Wasn't coke. Was Botox.

They start early in that family.

[classicman]

EXCLUSIVE: Biden Cocaine Scandal Video
Lawyer Quits

The explosive video that purports to show Vice President Joe Biden’s daughter Ashley snorting cocaine was shot with a hidden camera, RadarOnline.com has learned.

And as the scandal grows, the lawyer trying to peddle the tape while representing the man who shot it has quit.

Tom Dunlap, an attorney for the Washington, D.C. firm Dunlap, Grubb and Weaver has dropped the seller of the tape as a client.

Dunlap told RadarOnline.com early Sunday that he is no longer involved in the attempted sale of the video and informed his client he would not continue to represent him. The lawyer said he did not want to be involved due to circumstances surrounding the publicity of the matter.

On Saturday, RadarOnline.com broke the story that a video showing a woman who is allegedly Ashley Biden snorting cocaine has been shopped to several media entities. The woman on the tape appears identical to 27-year-old Ashley.

The New York Post, a British newspaper and the National Enquirer were shown the tape and asked to bid on it. RadarOnline.com has seen the video, but did not offer to pay for it.

The woman in the tape looks identical to Ashley and is clearly seen snorting several lines of white powder.
Despite contrary reports, RadarOnline.com has learned that the tape was shot with a hidden camera by the seller and made without the knowledge of the woman who is said to be the vice president’s daughter.

Our viewing of portions of the tape is consistent with that. The low, tilted angle of the camera and the actions of the woman both indicate the camera was not in plain view.

The tape was shot last month at a party in a house in Wilmington, Delaware.
We have also learned that the seller of the tape did not receive any written bids for it.
Ashley is the youngest of three siblings. She is also the only child of Joe and his second wife Jill.

Attempts to reach Ashley for comment have been unsuccessful.
The vice president has been a leader in the war on drugs, created the Drug Czar post and sponsored much anti-drug legislation.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

It does not have to work like that.

Yes it does. It is simple mathematics applied to the law of supply and demand. If you think there is another way please describe it.

[classicman]

Just have everyone put all their earnings in a big pot (Gov't) and (let them) divide it up equally between everybody. Won't that work?

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by classicman

Just have everyone put all their earnings in a big pot (Gov't) and (let them) divide it up equally between everybody. Won't that work?

Or just stuff everything in a great big strawman! Won't that be FUN?

[classicman]

HA HA HA

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Yes it does. It is simple mathematics applied to the law of supply and demand. If you think there is another way please describe it.

No, it doesn't. People at the top don't have to be so greedy. If a company is profitable, everyone should share in the success, not just the executives and the shareholders. The pay at the top does not have to be 500x that of the average employee. Why not something reasonable? There is no other country on earth where the pay scale is so imbalanced. It works in other countries, and it worked in this country for years, so please don't be so insulting as to say it can't work, because it has worked, and it does work.

[lookout123]

The people at the top are not the subjects we were speaking about. We were talking about all the people at the bottom having a higher level of income/standard of living. We were talking about the elimination of poverty. Quite simply that cannot happen. If the lowest income earner in America received $50K/year then the poverty line would be moved to $60K because of inflationary pressure. If there is that much cash injected into the economy then the cost of items increases - that is an economic fact that has absolutely nothing to do with john q billionaire's most recent gold plated yacht.

if the grocery bagger earns $50K/year the plumber will earn $100K. If the plumber earns $100K the surgeons will earn $500K. There is no other way for things to play out.

We live in a society where the poor still have food, shelter, tv, and transportation. They have a minimum expectation for healthcare. Never before in history have the poor lived so well. While we should always strive to improve life for all, don't be so foolish as to believe the current high income earners will stand still while those at the bottom move up.