TEA Parties

[tw]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

At the very least, they could have been making more fuel efficient cars and hybrids while they design the other ones.

Which is what the 70 horsepower per liter engine addressed in 1975. Or the stratified charge engine that existed in the early 1960s.

When did the stratified charge engine finally appear? In 1980 in the Hondas - that immediately became the #1 and #2 selling models in America - despite American automaker claims that it could not work.

When did the 70 hp/liter engine appear? In 1992 in Japanese and most European products - despite American automaker claims that is could not work.

It takes decades to upgrade all models to better technology. Let's look at MPG mileage. GM claimed they had 19 models that exceed 30 MPG. Then we consult honest sources. Not one single GM model comes close to 30 MPG. Not one. Of 40 GM models, the average MPG is ... 18.5. Some examples: Buick 16.7. Cadillac 16.7. Chevy 19.2

Average for 109 models from 16 import manufacturers is just under 21 MPG. Only Mercedes (that has no small cars) has MPG numbers equivalent to the low performance obsolete technology engines in GM. GM numbers are equal because GM also has small cars – Mercedes does not.

But then if you think GM is bad, worse is Chrysler. MPG for their 21 models is 17. Lower MPG because innovation is not found in GM or Chrysler models except when required by CAFE standards and EPA requirements.

Why no innovation? Ignoring that many Americans told them to keep stifling technology by purchasing such crap? Engineers were not permitted to innovate unless government regulations required it. Which is why GM, et al campaigned so vigorously to have SUVs liberated from innovation requirements.

GM has lower MPG numbers because GM has not been doing engine engineering for 30 years - except when required by government regulation.

[classicman]

I dunno - from what I remember the Gov't gave them money years ago to innovate and investigate the alternate vehicle power systems. For some reason it didn't work. IIRC it was in the 80's when the got a bunch of money to try to build some hybrids. No one cared enough back then. Now, apparently people do and they should be ready to roll. They aren't because demand dictated what they built. Srsly, what good is a product that no one is going to buy? It took $4.00 gasoline to get people to give a shit.

But as is typical with the American mentality, they went for the money they could get and now they aren't prepared. I blame it all on the beancounter MBA mentality. you?

[TheMercenary]

And look how short the memory banks are? Now that gas is generally less than $2 mid sized vehicles are still being bought and the Prius of the world are sitting on the lots unbought. No one cares about the electric cars. We sat in the Prius recently and Did not fit either in the drivers seat or passengers side. I would not buy one anyway. I did fit in the Mini Cooper so we bought one of those last week. Mommy is very happy.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I did fit in the Mini Cooper so we bought one of those last week. Mommy is very happy.

My car is mightier than yours. /offtopicsnarkiness

In actuality, I don't like that commercial. It would have been better if I really had gotten a cape and the silly decals when I bought the car.

[classicman]

Neighbor has a Prius - drove to CO with it to go skiing. They immediately put it up for sale upon returning. They said it was very uncomfortable, couldn't hold all their gear and was overall just not that nice a ride. I think its great that they get good gas mileage and I would drive one to/from work, but the cost to get one is still too prohibitive for my wallet.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

Neighbor has a Prius - drove to CO with it to go skiing. They immediately put it up for sale upon returning. They said it was very uncomfortable, couldn't hold all their gear and was overall just not that nice a ride. I think its great that they get good gas mileage and I would drive one to/from work, but the cost to get one is still too prohibitive for my wallet.

I know several people who own Priuses, and they love them. One couple likes them so much they own two of them.

FTR, about the electric cars, California spent hundreds of millions of dollars putting in electric charge stations around the state back when GM and others were making electric cars. Do you honestly think the state would have spent all that money for a few prototypes?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Do you honestly think the California would have spent all that money for a few prototypes?

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind and yes I firmly believe they would waste all that money and many many millions more.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind and yes I firmly believe they would waste all that money and many many millions more.

They did it believing the car manufacturers would keep the agreements about the regulations California had put in place. but they didn't. They fought them, and when Bush was put in place, it all went to hell, because you know, he was an oilman, so he took their side.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Those CA hippies are trying to dictate to the rest of the nation what to drive. Silly hippies.
Don't forget there are still plenty of gasp one car families in this country. And lots of people that drive a long way work or shop.
Electrics haven't come far enough to be viable for these people.
It's only been a couple years that batteries have been good enough for suburban viability.
The best option is electric motor driven wheels with a small gas or diesel engine with a generator/alternator to make the juice.

[sugarpop]

Only one of the links you provided said anything about the electric cars that were built in the 90s Merc.

[TheMercenary]

I was thinking the 70's. My bad.

Long history of the car in the 90's.

http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynami...ne/welcome.htm

[TheMercenary]

[TheMercenary]

Califorina sucks. That is all.

[sugarpop]

I love California. Have you ever lived there Merc?

If I ever go back, I would like to live in or near San Francisco next time. Or maybe Big Sur.

[TheMercenary]

Big Sur is a fantasy hippie area. It is not what it seems. The wife and I have visited many times, she lived there for three years. Calif sucks ass. I would rather live in Texas where there is unity than in Calif where there is chaos.