humans

[W.HI.P]

Danac, i'm not quite sure where it is that we disagree.
i'm saying that the physical human brain is to blame for our actions.
you're saying the physical human brain is at fault as well, you're just being more specific.
you wanna elaborate, maybe i'm missing something that you haven't quite made evident

[DanaC]

i don't like pink unicorns.
there's been hundreds and hundreds of various pink unicorns through-out history.
pink unicorns can be held responsible for the stupification of our kind.
who knows how advanced we'd be if we we're free from these blind-folds.

My point is that it isn't actually the pink unicorns which have retarded us. We haven't been 'retarded'. There is no end-goal. There is no optimum speed of development. The blindfolds are a part of what we are now. They are where we have developed to. Or more specifically, our capacity for blindfolding ourselves is where we have developed to. You can make specific arguments for the retardation of specific elements of specific societies/groups/communities, by particular stages in a particular pink unicorn's development...but that cannot be applied at a species level in any meaningful way.

I realise that to an extent this is semantic, but semantics are important. I agree with some of what you say. But there are certain points I do not agree with. We both seem to agree that humans are animals and in no way divine. That Gods are merely pink unicorns blindfolding large numbers of people and standing in direct opposition to reason and science. I disagree with idea that religion itself has retarded our development. I disagree that we have been retarded as a species at all. I disagree that what separates us from other species is what has caused our destructiveness. Rather, I think that what separates us is the thing that allows us to 'look in the mirror' as you put it.

What separates us from other species is potentially the thing that will allow us to reign in, or halt our destructiveness. By harnessing the same animal instincts which gave us something to reign in or halt.

[DanaC]

I suppose in a sense we are looking at the same thing, but where you seem to view it in a pessimistic way, I don't.

[skysidhe]

Are you two making distinctions between the mind vs the brain?
It sort of seemed so at one point. Dana is narrowing it down to the primitive brain now.

If we raise up constructs like the unicorn and the church as vehicles to worship or commit crimes that would be the mind? Seems this is what WHIP is saying anyway?

I'm sure you both know better than me.I'm just asking. Mildly curious.*shrug*

[W.HI.P]

you've got the picture skysidhe.

danac, i assume our difference is located at the base of our perceptions.
most would view me as extreme as i see us as secondary to the rest of this world...expendable even, for the good of all.

[xoxoxoBruce]

For the good of all what?

[skysidhe]

and who is 'us'? The human race? and whatever happened to the good guy wins scenario. There must be something worth salvaging?
I am sure there is as much good as bad. It's just that the good doesn't get as much coverage or recognition.I think people see what they want to see. That too is a mind frame just as dark as any other. Just as the Church looking for witches.

Human life isn't linear to me. It's cyclical. Even if the worst was to happen life would once again emerge and or human life would continue and learn from it's mistakes and progress into something better.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Even if the worst was to happen life would once again emerge and or human life would continue and learn from it's mistakes and progress into something better.

When have humans as a whole ever learned from our mistakes?

Humans will adapt and move on just so we can fuck it up again later.

[W.HI.P]

For the good of all what?

for the good of all..... life, this planet, all the things we could destroy in time.

Originally Posted by skysidhe

and who is 'us'? The human race? and whatever happened to the good guy wins scenario.

umm, i thought it was safe to assume that i am human, so yeah, us.
the good guy wins scenario would have us[the bad guy] erased, along with this cement jail cell we've built.

There must be something worth salvaging?

yes, this earth, and the non-human life thats on it.
the only way to salvage it, is to get rid of the species that destroys it.

I am sure there is as much good as bad. It's just that the good doesn't get as much coverage or recognition.I think people see what they want to see. That too is a mind frame just as dark as any other. Just as the Church looking for witches.

as above, you wanna enlighten us pointing out some of the good humanity is doing for the rest of life that the media is not covering.
btw,i am the witch the church was seeking.

Human life isn't linear to me. It's cyclical. Even if the worst was to happen life would once again emerge and or human life would continue and learn from it's mistakes and progress into something better.

decreasing our population should be the number 1 focus for our species at this time, but again, how do you suggest we go about doing that?
china made the first step 30 years ago.
even if the rest of the world followed, it would be too late.
a nuclear bomb over india,[no offense, going by numbers'] would be a good start, but would still not be solving the problem.
aids helps, but we made the mistake of educating the people in how to avoid it.[we're not really learning here]
war has been our greatest blessing as it has kept us under 50 billion.
but still, its not enough, we'd have to be on world war 8 to keep up with our reproductive rate.
maybe a good virus would do the trick, inject a transmitable deadly virus into a large percentage of the world population, and we might actually be on to something....lets see how that works out for us.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Millions of types of critters have died out, and millions of new types came along to take their place. 3 or 4 times 90% of the life on Earth has been wiped out entirely... and came back. All this without our help. The Earth is constanly evolving.

Granted we have the power to steer that evolution some, but don't fool yourself, the Earth will survive long after we're gone, if it comes to that.

[W.HI.P]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Millions of types of critters have died out, and millions of new types came along to take their place. 3 or 4 times 90% of the life on Earth has been wiped out entirely... and came back. All this without our help. The Earth is constanly evolving.

Granted we have the power to steer that evolution some, but don't fool yourself, the Earth will survive long after we're gone, if it comes to that.

no doubt the earth will survive after we're gone.
the meantime is what we're looking at.

[skysidhe]

Anyone that really gives a damn can volunteer.



Greenpeace

Earth Island Insitute

National Wildlife Federation

Rainforest Action Network

Rainforst Foundation

Nature Conservatory

Worldlife Wildlife Fund

Oraganization Save the Earth Foundation

Mercy Corps

Peace Corps



Humanitarian and International Relief Organizations


Action Against Hunger

American Red Cross

BAPS Care International

CARE

Direct Relief International

GOAL

Global Giving

Habitat for Humanity International

International Federation Red Cross and Red Crescent

Islamic Relief Worldwide

Network for Good

Oxfam International

People to People International

Save the Children

UNICEF

United Way

World Food Programme

World Vision

[W.HI.P]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Anyone that really gives a damn can volunteer.



Greenpeace

Earth Island Insitute

National Wildlife Federation

Rainforest Action Network

Rainforst Foundation

Nature Conservatory

Worldlife Wildlife Fund

Oraganization Save the Earth Foundation

Mercy Corps

Peace Corps



Humanitarian and International Relief Organizations


Action Against Hunger

American Red Cross

BAPS Care International

CARE

Direct Relief International

GOAL

Global Giving

Habitat for Humanity International

International Federation Red Cross and Red Crescent

Islamic Relief Worldwide

Network for Good

Oxfam International

People to People International

Save the Children

UNICEF

United Way

World Food Programme

World Vision

decreasing our population should be the number 1 focus for our species at this time

umm, yeah, how do any of these help us decrease our population?
most of these are for the benefit of humans.
quite the opposite of the objective.

you've not listed any actions of ours that benefit non-human life.
some of these have their focus on attempting to fix problems that we've caused, but that is still a negative against us, not a positive.

[W.HI.P]

its like destroying 90 percent of the rainforrests and then planting some seeds, or like dropping a bomb on a school, and handing out a few band-aids to the few survivors attempting to take credit for helping.

[piercehawkeye45]

The Earth can support an even greater population then we have today. It will just require a setup that is efficient with resources. If you really want to do something WHIP, work on making creating social setups that do just that. Decreasing the world population is not the only option.