Mosque at 51 Park Place, NY, NY

[Undertoad]

David Frum figures it out: the mosque idea is a real estate developer's floated notion, and it was just a stunt and will never be built. This seems highly plausible to me.

[TheMercenary]

And to imagine all the bs that was generated over the issue. Another example of the volatility information age, add a little internet and a hot button issue. What would motivate someone to start this rumor.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And to imagine all the bs that was generated over the issue. Another example of the volatility information age, add a little internet and a hot button issue. What would motivate someone to start this rumor.

Extremists used animosity to blame 11 September on Saddam and Islam. No extremist hatred; then no volatility.

Neither Islam nor Saddam created 11 September. Volatility and "Mission Accomplished" both directly traceable to an extremist agenda. Extremism is the only reason why this thread even exists.

Good that the mosque was proposed. Demonstrated how widespread and explosive this extremist hostility is. Volatility identifies both extremists and those easily brainwashed by their political agenda. Shame on them for so dishonoring the 3000 that died with lies. Islam did not create 11 September. Only lies from a political agenda - not the Internet - created this resulting volatility.

Amazing how some still deny the only reason for this controversy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I think you've mentioned that.

[tw]

Extremists have not apologized yet for promoting hate that made this issue volatile. Not that I expect extremists to be honest. The purpose of extremism is to lie for a political agenda. An honest apology would only subvert the agenda.

“Fear, little girl. There might be a Muslim hiding in your closet.” Once the word Muslim was replaced by Jew. Same hate. Different bogeyman. Different century. Same purpose.

Next, we will start blaming immigrants. Always have an enemy. Hate makes recruiting the most naïve easy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No, just illegal immigrants.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by tw

Extremists have not apologized yet for promoting hate that made this issue volatile. Not that I expect extremists to be honest. The purpose of extremism is to lie for a political agenda. An honest apology would only subvert the agenda.

“Fear, little girl. There might be a Muslim hiding in your closet.” Once the word Muslim was replaced by Jew. Same hate. Different bogeyman. Different century. Same purpose.

Next, we will start blaming immigrants. Always have an enemy. Hate makes recruiting the most naïve easy.

When we say "It's Bush's fault" it's akin to saying "it was Hitler's fault" in my eyes.

I thought about that last night, and was glad to see tw put it much more eloquently than I would have.

If'n you all want to fear someone, fear ME!

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, just illegal immigrants.

Already some of the most right wing is talking about a population explosion and why we must further restrict all immigration.

The #1 reason for illegal immigration is immigration laws so ridiculous and restrictive as to make people we need go illegal.

So extremists invent myths such as increased kidnapping in Phoenix AZ. Reality. As the number of illegal immigrants increases, kidnappings decreased in Phoenix. Extremisms is about inventing lies to promote hate - ie increased kidnapping in Phoenix. Or Saddam's WMDs - a classic example.

We don’t have an illegal immigration problem. We have screwed up immigration laws. But attacking illegal immigrants is another easy target to promote hate - to promote the wacko extremst agenda.

[jinx]

The #1 reason for illegal immigration is immigration laws so ridiculous and restrictive as to make people we need go illegal.

Yeah, you know, it's just like banks. If they weren't so damn secure and restrictive fewer people would have to rob them.

Jackass.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

The #1 reason for illegal immigration is immigration laws so ridiculous and restrictive as to make people we need go illegal.

False - The #1 reason for illegal immigration is because America is 5 gazillion times better than where they are coming from.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

False - The #1 reason for illegal immigration is because America is 5 gazillion times better than where they are coming from.

So why does the Silicon Valley in less than one week use up all the HiB visas for the entire year. Why do we need 1.8 million farm workers and only issue visas for 20,000? Why do numbers and reality always disagree with wacko rhetoric?

Oh. Islam attacked the WTC. So now its all about evil immigrants - who are traditionally the source of the most productive Americans. Clearly we must protect America from these evil people.

[classicman]

Thanks for proving my point.

[Lamplighter]

Whether you like Obama or not, he has made an exceptional statement in support of freedom of religion,
and (therefore) in support of building this mosque.

NY Times article
Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

In part, he said:

“I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” the president said in remarks prepared for the annual White House iftar, the sunset meal breaking the day’s fast.

But, he continued: “This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are.”

In his remarks, Mr. Obama distinguished between the terrorists who plotted the 9/11 attacks and Islam. “Al Qaeda’s cause is not Islam — it is a gross distortion of Islam,” the president said, adding, “In fact, Al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion, and that list includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11.”

Noting that “Muslim Americans serve with honor in our military,” Mr. Obama said that at next week’s iftar at the Pentagon, “tribute will be paid to three soldiers who gave their lives in Iraq and now rest among the heroes of Arlington National Cemetery.”

I have posted this statement by Obama, and previously posted Mayor Bloomberg's statement, in the hope that people will see that this is not an issue for partisan politics or even of the "war on terrorism".

It is a matter of basic freedom of religion and is essential for our form of government.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I have posted this statement by Obama, and previously posted Mayor Bloomberg's statement, in the hope that people will see that this is not an issue for partisan politics or even of the "war on terrorism".

Too late for that. Sarah Palin wasted no time using hate to gain political support. From The Economist of 7 Aug 2010:

In a tweet last month from Alaska, Ms Palin called on "peaceful Muslims" to "refudiate" the "ground-zero mosque" because it would "stab" American hearts. But why should it? Cordoba House is not being built by al-Qaeda. To the contrary, it is the brainchild of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, a well-meaning American cleric who has spent years trying to promote interfaith understanding, not an apostle of religious war like Osama bin Laden. He is modelling his project on New York's 92nd Street Y, a Jewish community centre that reaches out to other religions. The site was selected in part precisely so that it might heal some of the wounds opened by the felling of the twin towers and all that followed. True, some relatives of 9/11 victims are hurt by the idea of a mosque going up near the site. But that feeling of hurt makes sense only if they too buy the false idea that Muslims in general were perpetrators of the crime.

Even The Economist notes bin Laden is the enemy. And that blaming Muslims can only promote more pain and hate. So why do so many extremists promote that loathing. It was not just Palin.

The former Republican speaker of the House of Representatives may or may not have presidential pretensions, but he certainly has intellectual ones. That makes it impossible to excuse the mean spirit and scrambled logic of his assertion that "there should be no mosque near ground zero so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia". Come again? Why hold the rights of Americans who happen to be Muslim hostage to the policy of a foreign country that happens also to be Muslim? To Mr Gingrich, it seems, an American Muslim is a Muslim first and an American second.

... Imam Feisal says he chose "Cordoba" in recollection of a time when the rest of Europe had sunk into the Dark Ages but Muslims, Jews and Christians created an oasis of art, culture and science. Mr Gingrich sees only a "deliberate insult", a reminder of a period when Muslim conquerors ruled Spain. Like Mr bin Laden, Mr Gingrich is apparently still relitigating the victories and defeats of religious wars fought in Europe and the Middle East centuries ago. He should rejoin the modern world, before he does real harm.

Why are extremists quoted by The Economist using expressions such as "deliberate insult", "ground-zero mosque", and "stab" American hearts? Same revulsion that also said, "We want Obama to fail."

A strong movement in the Republican party even attacks their own including moderate Republicans including Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Olympia Snowe, and Susan Collins. These Conservative Republican Senators are too liberal for extremists inspired by animosity and daily doses of Limbaugh and Beck.

This mosque made painfully obvious the hate and resulting nastiness behind extremist posts. Hate that even blames immigrants for crime waves that do not exist. Hate intentionally used by Palin to rally support.

Kudos to Imam Rauf for exposing this hate fundamental to and that inspires our extremists.

[TheMercenary]

Good points Pat:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pa...surprised.html