WikiLeaks - Page 3

TheMercenary · 11-30-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Classic, see post # 14

But that's really not the main point.
The new media have been talking about leaks of State Dept materials, and the "spying" issue has been a major sub-topic.

The policy/directive to carry out the "spying" was a policy initiated by Sec of State Rice, and more recently continued by Sec of State Clinton.

So what?

xoxoxoBruce · 11-30-2010, 11:53 AM

The more you know about the other players, on your team as well as the opposition, the better you can play.

TheMercenary · 11-30-2010, 11:59 AM

Yea, which is why they should throw the book at WikiLeaks and all of those involved. This is an obvious attack on the US. He should be treated as a terrorist. A cyber terrorist, but a terrorist never the less.

Lamplighter · 11-30-2010, 11:59 AM

Merc , I'm impressed by what the man has to say about his role in Wikileaks in the interview you posted.
I'm seeing him pretty much as a news reporter, and seems to have a lot of integrity about his role and sources.

Ad hominem attacks don't go very far for me, particularly
when it's alleged sexual misconduct that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

classicman · 11-30-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Classic, see post # 14

Sorry missed that. I stand corrected. Bruce brought up Hillary.

Quote:

The policy/directive to carry out the "spying" was a policy initiated by Sec of State Rice, and more recently continued by Sec of State Clinton.

I don't know if it was started by Rice or simply continued by her. I believe that point was ambiguous when I first read it... I wouldn't be surprised if it was started by Rice and was precipitated by the 9/11 attacks.

Did you miss this question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

How many of those diplomats are going to be able to talk to other countries when they are now perceived as spies?

If it were you, would you go to some of those countries knowing they think you are a spy. Consider what they do to spies... Waterboarding would be like taking a vacation.

classicman · 11-30-2010, 12:03 PM

From Merc's link...

Quote:

The site appears to have responded by switching its main hosting base from Sweden to the U.S., making it available again.

Does that bring them/him under US jurisdiction now?

TheMercenary · 11-30-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Merc , I'm impressed by what the man has to say about his role in Wikileaks in the interview you posted.
I'm seeing him pretty much as a news reporter, and seems to have a lot of integrity about his role and sources.

Ad hominem attacks don't go very far for me, particularly
when it's alleged sexual misconduct that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

It is not an ad hominem attack. It is a fact the guy is wanted for questioning in a rape. It speaks to his charater. Or at least it should be suspect. And how you can call a person who is singlehandedly exposing stolen classified information of our government as having "a lot of integrity" in anything associated with this criminal act is beyond me.

He is not a news reporter. He has co-opted the various news organizations as a conduit to his illegal activity.

TheMercenary · 11-30-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

From Merc's link...

Does that bring them/him under US jurisdiction now?

I suspect they did that because they know if they try a DOS attack on Amazon servers it would affect the transactions of Amazon on-line ordering during the busy holiday season. They should have no problem getting Amazon to shut them down.

Lamplighter · 11-30-2010, 12:15 PM

Classic, that was the point the former diplomats were making about diplomats being seen as "spies".
Not so much the penalty (I think diplomats are usually deported) as the "trust" issue.
Thus my comments about Hillary should have known better than to approve the continuation of the policy/directive.

TheMercenary · 11-30-2010, 12:18 PM

Most countries use the terms interchangeably. The top spy in the Russian Consulate is a "diplomat" for protection. He knows who he is, we know who he is, yet he is still known as a "diplomat".

glatt · 11-30-2010, 12:25 PM

Part of the embassies job has always been to spy. It's been going on for decades. Not since this administration or the previous one, but since the second World War. Probably even before then.

When a spy under diplomatic immunity associated with an embassy was discovered, they would just go home. Can't spy any more when they know you are a spy.

Stormieweather · 11-30-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It is not an ad hominem attack. It is a fact the guy is wanted for questioning in a rape. It speaks to his charater. Or at least it should be suspect.

No. It shouldn't say anything about his character unless he is found guilty of the crime. I could accuse YOU or anyone of anything...and it should not speak to your character...until solid facts are brought forth to support my accusation.

At least that's the way it's supposed to work in the US justice system. Innocent until proven guilty...blah blah blah.

TheMercenary · 11-30-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

No. It shouldn't say anything about his character unless he is found guilty of the crime. I could accuse YOU or anyone of anything...and it should not speak to your character...until solid facts are brought forth to support my accusation.

At least that's the way it's supposed to work in the US justice system. Innocent until proven guilty...blah blah blah.

True dat, but given that Sweden is probably, along with Norway one of the less easily influenced countries by anything the US wants them to do, I am inclined to believe that they would not issue and arrest warrant for the hell of it. Meaning they have evidence. It disturbs me to see people defending this fool as having "integrity" in light of his current crimes against the US.

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-30-2010, 01:23 PM

National Review

Aliantha, Zen: could you two inform Mr. Assange what an article of incestuous personnel he's being? He might believe it more if it's coming from two Australians. He's got too much of a desire to smirch and impair the hope of the world. He's making Australians look bad. He does not seem to grasp that.

Trilby · 11-30-2010, 01:28 PM

I was wondering why Ali hadn't jumped to Mr. Assange's defense - the shit he is doing is right up her line of liberal blahblahblah but she is AWOL it seems. I would think making the US look stupid would make her, literally, swoon with glee. but, since merc is having none of it, perhaps she's just making herself scarce.

11-30-2010, 11:53 AM	#32
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The more you know about the other players, on your team as well as the opposition, the better you can play. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

11-30-2010, 11:59 AM	#33
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Yea, which is why they should throw the book at WikiLeaks and all of those involved. This is an obvious attack on the US. He should be treated as a terrorist. A cyber terrorist, but a terrorist never the less. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

11-30-2010, 12:18 PM	#40
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Most countries use the terms interchangeably. The top spy in the Russian Consulate is a "diplomat" for protection. He knows who he is, we know who he is, yet he is still known as a "diplomat". __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

11-30-2010, 01:23 PM	#44
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	National Review Aliantha, Zen: could you two inform Mr. Assange what an article of incestuous personnel he's being? He might believe it more if it's coming from two Australians. He's got too much of a desire to smirch and impair the hope of the world. He's making Australians look bad. He does not seem to grasp that. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-30-2010, 01:28 PM	#45
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	I was wondering why Ali hadn't jumped to Mr. Assange's defense - the shit he is doing is right up her line of liberal blahblahblah but she is AWOL it seems. I would think making the US look stupid would make her, literally, swoon with glee. but, since merc is having none of it, perhaps she's just making herself scarce. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

11-30-2010, 11:59 AM	#34
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	Merc , I'm impressed by what the man has to say about his role in Wikileaks in the interview you posted. I'm seeing him pretty much as a news reporter, and seems to have a lot of integrity about his role and sources. Ad hominem attacks don't go very far for me, particularly when it's alleged sexual misconduct that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

11-30-2010, 12:15 PM	#39
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	Classic, that was the point the former diplomats were making about diplomats being seen as "spies". Not so much the penalty (I think diplomats are usually deported) as the "trust" issue. Thus my comments about Hillary should have known better than to approve the continuation of the policy/directive.

11-30-2010, 12:25 PM	#41
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Part of the embassies job has always been to spy. It's been going on for decades. Not since this administration or the previous one, but since the second World War. Probably even before then. When a spy under diplomatic immunity associated with an embassy was discovered, they would just go home. Can't spy any more when they know you are a spy.

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