Food Deserts and Inequality in Access to Nutrition.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Ibby

I'm pretty sure when I would send seniors out to pick up both beer and liquor at the BBO they'd bring me back two receipts.

Did power corrupt you?

[Ibby]

oh, no, it wasn't a matter of ordering them. More like bribing them with a share. It was usually customary to let them keep a couple of beers, or get them drunk once or twice if they pick up a bunch of liquor.

[infinite monkey]

But you kept receipts?

[Ibby]

oh, yeah, they had to bring them back so i'd know they aren't bullshitting me about how much shit cost. you gotta be careful when youre on a college budget. You gotta know JUST how much your booze costs you.

[infinite monkey]

True. heheheheeee. That's why we drank Old Milwaukee Light (Old Mud Light) because it was slightly under 5 bucks a 12 pack. This was in the 80s, of course.

Sinbad did a thing about 'college poor.' When you were happy to have money for the pop machine times (ours was 35cents and sometimes I still couldn't cut it.)
He said you'd find a dollar and be all struttin' and proud..."I'm gonna just hang out with my dollar."

[Ibby]

Bennington is all about the PBR, buncha hipster fucks.

[infinite monkey]

I have a couple friends (admitted 'billies) who LOVE PBR. Won't drink anything else. I have set of younger friends who drink 'Natty Light' (Natural Light.)

My nephew brought home a PBR rocking chair from college, so I guess it is all the rage!

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Rhianne

But what has really surprised me most about this thread is that no-one has asked what Clodfobble does with 20 pounds of zucchini each week.

Minifob eats them, all by his lonesome. I peel them first, which removes more weight than you might guess. Then I chop/cook/puree them (not juicing, real pureeing in the blender,) and he drinks them in veggie smoothies all day long. It takes a lot of veggies to equal the same number of calories in a serving of traditional carbs.

I used to buy that much about twice as often, until we figured out Minifobette is allergic to all forms of squash. So she eats a lot more carrots and onions now, to make up for it.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

It varies so much state to state. You can't buy cigs at liquor stores in NY, You can't even buy mixers; only wine and liquor. Grocery stores can sell beer. In VT, just across the road, you can buy beer, wine, liquor, cigs, mixers, lottery tickets, candy etc at the state liquor stores, Beer and wine at grocery stores.

Every states does seem to have its own set of laws most of which make no sense. In Colorado the grocery and convenience stores are allowed to sell only 3.2 beer and wine coolers. Liquor stores, in addition to selling every kind of alcoholic product known to man, also sell mixers, FRESH lemons and limes, and smokes. No duplicate receipts required. Cigarettes can be purchased just about anywhere.

Marijuana can be bought legally only at a medical marijuana dispensary and you have to have a special card issued by the state. I'm interested to see what will happen once marijuana for the masses becomes legal after the first of the year.

At least OUR low income people have ready access to fresh sources of vitamin C, so there's no excuse for any outbreaks of scurvy in Colorado.

[Ibby]

Are the liquor stores there state-owned/state-run or just licensed private businesses?

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Are the liquor stores there state-owned/state-run or just licensed private businesses?

I don't know about you, kid. Sending seniors out into Vermont snow storms to buy you booze? Any idea how hard it is to use a walker in 3 foot snow drifts? Never mind how difficult it is for someone with early onset Alzheimer's to keep all those receipts straight.

Colorado has licensed private businesses. However, down here in the Lost Corners, it gets tricky. My town is right next to the Ute tribal reservation as well as the Navajo Nation. It is illegal to even carry a bootle of booze for yourself, never mind sell any in either the Navajo Nation or on Ute tribal lands. They are located in an alcohol desert as well as a literall one.

Most Navajo's seem to have access to a pick-up truck of some variety. They solve the problem by driving over to New Mexico where you can find a gas station which also serves as a drive-thru liquor store at just about every cross road. They're open on Sundays, too which wasn't the case in Colorado until recently. Everytime I'm down that way and have to buy gas, I feel amazed all over again that I am walking into a liquor store to pay for my gas.

Needless to say, the death toll due to drunk driving is astronomical on both the rez and New Mexico highways. Folks here about warn newcomers to never drive on roads that go thru tribal lands on the weekends.

Go figure.

Perky Coloradans from around here also have the option of a casual walk across the state line over to Utah - I prefer the 70 mile round trip to the town of Monticello, myself, but the show-offs put in the extra 25 miles each way to purchase their poison in Moab. Utah offers the discerning booze shopper tiny state owned stores staffed by disapproving Mormons. People in cars run the risk of missing Utah liquor stores altogether, since they are plain with teensy signs, relegated to side streets and only open from about 2 - 7pm weekdays.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Here's what I'm seeing, flint. This is admittedly just a quick look, not a rigorous mathematical analysis, so you might not see the same trends I do - but to me the blue shades look to be a lot more desert-y.

I think it's best to consider #1 that most of the map is actually purple, and #2 that highly complex patterns like this are going to be very susceptible to confirmation bias. These maps look much too detailed to support a definitive conclusion, without overlaying them directly.

[ZenGum]

I'll throw in that a lot of remote Aboriginal communities have this problem very severely*. How much do you think it costs to truck refrigerated vegetables 1,500 kms to a community of maybe 500 people, most of whom are scraping by on some kind of government support?

This is just one of the many interconnected problems.


* For "very severely" I almost wrote "in spades". [hangs head in shame for even thinking it].

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Flint

I think it's best to consider #1 that most of the map is actually purple, and

I disagree. At the county level, every county is either (possibly light) red or (possibly light) blue, it only looks purple from a distance because of the way your brain blends the shades. In relation to my point about the south, the bluer an area is - even if its still reddish-purple across multiple counties or precincts or whatever - the less white it is, on average. It also looks more likely, on average, to be in a food desert, especially controlling for how densely populated the small inner-city deserts are, on the map, to me. I already know it to be a fact that communities of color are more affected by food deserts, and therefore pointing out that I think the map visually shows that is valid, even if you disagree if you can actually see the pattern visually.

Originally Posted by Flint

#2 that highly complex patterns like this are going to be very susceptible to confirmation bias.

Which is why the vast amount of other data showing that things like this overwhelmingly affect communities of color, and that the effect of it is extremely broad but subtle, correlating well to the known correlation between southern vote distribution and race, works up to a fairly solid and statistically testable hypothesis. And, in fact, I'm absolutely certain that i could write a literal essay on it for a stats class if i took one. As it is, I'm simply too lazy to add up all the land area counted as food deserts that effect predominantly PoC vs area that effects PoC, controlling for population density, and keeping in mind the overall population of PoC in America... etc etc

Originally Posted by Flint

These maps look much too detailed to support a definitive conclusion, without overlaying them directly.

the maps alone, no. The overwhelming data from multiple fields and sources that say this is an issue among communities of color, however, can be visually reenforced by the fact that another pattern that highlights regions predominantly of color is the voting distribution in the south, and both can be mapped to show visual patterns, for the spacially-oriented.

[Flint]

Look, your position isn't convincingly supported by the evidence at hand. I'm not arguing the veracity of your position, or how many other factors weigh in to how you formed it. You made a statement specifically about a conclusion that can be reached from these maps, but it can't be reached from these maps. You were reaching, and you over-reached. I tried to inquire politely, but your answers became progressivley more vague. I'm not 'out to get you' on this, I'm just interested in a solid, well-founded defense of a claim which I wasn't personally able to confirm based on the evidence you presented. Now, you're saying it is supported by all this other stuff. That's fine, just don't say it's based on these maps unless you intend to back that claim. Either back it or retract it--these would be the two intellectually honest options you have.

The 'force' of an opinion, alone, is not a good indicator of accuracy. If it was indicated by the evidence, it wouldn't require you to force it.

Originally Posted by Ibby

the maps alone, no. The overwhelming data from multiple fields and sources ...

This is the definition of confirmation bias. You'e projected a conclusion upon the evidence. This is backwards to how science works.