Obama Care vs Republicans

[Adak]

Looks like the showdown over Obama Care may have been de-railed.

The Republican leader (Mitch McConnell) in the Senate, has confirmed that he will NOT be supporting a move to limit Sen. Reed's resolution to allow him to remove the Amendment de-funding Obama Care, in the House resolution to extend the debt limit.

It seems the Republican leadership did not approve of Sen. Cruz and Lee's efforts to bring forth this "Choose a higher debt limit, or choose to fund Obama Care", House resolution.

So they (McConnell and pals in the Senate) will axe it, but all in phrases that sound like they're fighting to kill Obama Care, of course. (McConnell is up for re-election this year, in Kentucky.)

Mitch may find that a hard act to cover up in Kentucky, if Obama Care doesn't work out well.

Republicans failing to work with other Republicans who have good ideas. Nothing new to see here!

[glatt]

??? Because the oil and gas companies are going to pay for everyone's health care? Or is it just some sort of sense of negotiating? Obama allows a pipeline and the republicans will allow healthcare.

You can't get rid of the pre-exisiting conditions exclusion without having universal health care. Otherwise, people will just wait until they get sick and then sign up. It simply doesn't work.

[Undertoad]

Adak, good on you for your post #45. Biggie called you out and you responded in kind. Much respect for that.

Without some kind of change, everyone was rolling right into Medicare/Medicaid, which to me is nationalized enough. Half of all medicine is paid for by the feds pre-O'care. People feel unprotected, while hospitals, at least around here, are like mini-Taj Mahals. Someone's getting PAID all this time...

But the system clearly wasn't working, and something had to be done. If O'care isn't sustainable we will find out soon enough, and fixes will be applied. But I personally prefer the D's let's do something as opposed to the R's let's do nothing and by the way let's get rid of the something if it's tried.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Adak, good on you for your post #45. Biggie called you out and you responded in kind. Much respect for that.

Without some kind of change, everyone was rolling right into Medicare/Medicaid, which to me is nationalized enough. Half of all medicine is paid for by the feds pre-O'care. People feel unprotected, while hospitals, at least around here, are like mini-Taj Mahals. Someone's getting PAID all this time...

But the system clearly wasn't working, and something had to be done. If O'care isn't sustainable we will find out soon enough, and fixes will be applied. But I personally prefer the D's let's do something as opposed to the R's let's do nothing and by the way let's get rid of the something if it's tried.

Thanks Undertoad.

One reason the system isn't working is we (US) pay so much more than any other country, for our meds. Why the hell can't we pay the same as say, Canadians, or other Western countries? Because we have an agreement to let ourselves be gouged!

Around here (California), many hospitals have gone broke and shut down. The law is that anyone showing up at the emergency entrance, must be treated, even if they're not citizens (you aren't allowed to even ask), or of course, can't pay and are uninsured.

We have lots of illegals (who can't pay), coming in for treatments. The hospitals financial losses are *staggering*. Many have closed if they are near the border with Mexico, or along the routes they travel through the county. Others have been converted to "Clinics" which do certain specialized treatments (Oncology, etc.), but have no Emergency room.

We have given exemptions to many of our largest employers, and union members are applying for them, as well. It will be very difficult to take that away, later. This is already a big concern with Obama Care.

Keeping my fingers crossed for good and quick fixes!

[Adak]

Originally Posted by glatt

??? Because the oil and gas companies are going to pay for everyone's health care? Or is it just some sort of sense of negotiating? Obama allows a pipeline and the republicans will allow healthcare.

Because we can pay for things if we have more $$$. With more oil and gas, we (the nation), have a lot more $$$, and a lot less deficit. Norway largely funds it's socialized health care system, from it's North Sea oil wells.

You can't get rid of the pre-exisiting conditions exclusion without having universal health care. Otherwise, people will just wait until they get sick and then sign up. It simply doesn't work.

Please don't make me laugh so hard. We do this for all kinds of insurance. You have never worked in the insurance business have you? It's not as clean and simple as you seem to think it should be, but it's very doable; indeed, done every day.

You may have noticed that our economic recovery has been happening much slower than anyone predicted. Much slower than any of our recent depressions/recessions.

The biggest reason for that, is Barrack Obama's policies. At the same time he is spending like a drunken sailor, money we don't have, he's also put expensive and/or crippling requirements into place.

Top of the list, is refusing to allow any further gas and oil drilling, on any Federal land. He brags about how we're producing more gas and oil than ever, but that's ALL because he can't stop drilling on PRIVATE land. See, if you've been lied to, and the liar wasn't Barrack Obama or Bill Clinton, you haven't begun to get the very best lies just yet. Stay tuned for more!

Now the states have picked this up, and are passing laws to restrict drilling, even on private land where it was previously allowed. California is one of them.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Adak

Because we can pay for things if we have more $$$. With more oil and gas, we (the nation), have a lot more $$$, and a lot less deficit. Norway largely funds it's socialized health care system, from it's North Sea oil wells.

Which are also socialized.

Oil drilled in America won't be giving 62.5% of its dividends back to us (the nation). A little extra profit for ExxonMobil isn't going to help our deficit.

If our choice was despoil our environment, but get single-payer healthcare, that may be a debate. But if our choice is despoil our environment and hope to get trickled down on, there isn't.

[Adak]

I don't accept that insurance is "socialized". It spreads the risk and payments out, across the subscribers. Lloyds of London is NOT a socialist organization.

That's a lot different than "spreading the wealth", the way Obama has made it clear he wants to do. He makes it sound like he's not using the gov't to STEAL our money, which he certainly is. I have NO problem with medicare, because it's insurance. We pay into the system (usually, some have their own similar program), and when we need it, it's there.

Sure, payments and benefits are adjusted from time to time, but the idea is, it's something we contribute to, and can draw from, when we get ill. It's insurance.

In the Senate today, although the Senate Republican leaders have pulled the rug out from underneath them, Sen. Cruz, Lee, and a few others, are giving LONG (5 hours long, and growing), impassioned speeches on the Senate Floor, why Obama Care should be defunded.

Frankly, it's hopeless, imo, but I do dearly love the way Cruz, Lee, and the others, have stood up for what their voters have asked for.
Quite inspiring, every one of them.

Senator Cruz for President!

[Adak]

Sen. Cruz and buddies are STILL talking on the Senate Floor, at 03:30 AM.! They'll be speaking all night.

It's not a filibuster, because it won't stop the upcoming vote on the Senate - but it's great to hear them!

I loved the letters from the IRS union (who will have to enforce Obama Care enrollment), complaining about Obama Care! Sweet!

Labor is finally realizing how much they stand to lose in the way of their health benefits, and possible loss of hours, at work.

Reminds me of Jimmy Stewart in the political movie,
"Mr. Smith Goes to Washington".

[Lamplighter]

Wall Street Journal
9/25/13

Prices Set for New Health-Care Exchanges



U.S. officials for the first time disclosed insurance prices that will be offered
through new federally run health-care exchanges starting Oct. 1, showing that
young, healthy buyers likely will pay more than they do currently
while older, sicker consumers should get a break.

The plans, offered under the health-care overhaul to people who don't get insurance
through an employer or government program, in many cases provide broader coverage than current policies.

Across the country, the average premium for a 27-year-old nonsmoker,
regardless of gender, will start at $163 a month for the lowest-cost "bronze" plan;
$203 for the "silver" plan, which provides more benefits than bronze; and
$240 for the more-comprehensive "gold" plan.<snip>

The Affordable Care Act marks a fundamental shift in the way insurers price their products.
Carriers won't be allowed to charge higher premiums for consumers
who have medical histories suggesting they might be more expensive
to cover because they need more care. They will have to treat customers equally,
with limited variation in premiums based on buyers' ages or whether they smoke.
Insurers also will have to offer a more generous benefits package that includes
hospital care, preventive services, prescription drugs and maternity coverage.
<snip>
The administration has pointed to new federal subsidies that
many lower-income Americans will be able to use to help offset the cost of premiums.
The data released by the administration indicated that for younger single people,
the value of the subsidies would be generous for someone with an annual income
of up to about $25,000, though it could tail off after that.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Adak

<snip>
Around here (California), many hospitals have gone broke and shut down. The law is that anyone showing up at the emergency entrance, must be treated, even if they're not citizens (you aren't allowed to even ask), or of course, can't pay and are uninsured.

We have lots of illegals (who can't pay), coming in for treatments. The hospitals financial losses are *staggering*. Many have closed if they are near the border with Mexico, or along the routes they travel through the county. Others have been converted to "Clinics" which do certain specialized treatments (Oncology, etc.), but have no Emergency room.<snip>

Once more, Adakian words with little substance regarding Obamacare...

In 2013 the LA Times DATA DESK reports
for the State of California between 1998 and 2007:

63 Hospitals closed, but only 21 of these had Emergency Rooms
... and all but 13 of these closed more than 10 yrs ago (<2003)
(Some of these facilities may have re-opened under new names or ownerships.)

466 Hospitals remain open, and 14 of these opened new ER's

Thus, there is a net loss of only 7 ER's across the entire state.

------

No hubcaps were lost or damaged during this posting
.

[Happy Monkey]

So, Cruz read Green Eggs and Ham during his Fauxlibuster.

Cruz said after he finished reading the story that the book "has some applicability, as curious as it may sound, to the Obamcare debate," adding that Americans "did not like green eggs and ham, and they did not like Obamacare either."

The moral of that story is that it turned out that green eggs and ham were delicious...

[orthodoc]

Now THAT was a major oops on Cruz's part. Could it be he's never read the story before ...?

As for nationalized natural resources, I'm for it. It works great in Alberta, Canada, where the oil revenue goes into the provincial economy and everyone benefits. I say the US should imitate what works.

[Lamplighter]

Adak's predicted "kicker" has fizzled... as has his hero, the Texas Senator's attempt to sway his party...

WASHINGTON — Republican Senator Ted Cruz’s 21-hour, 19-minute verbal assault
on President Obama’s signature health care law ended Wednesday
when the Senate voted 100-to-0 to move to consider House legislation
that Democrats plan to use to keep the government open next week.

It doesn't happen very often for just 1 Senator to antagonize all 99 others.

[orthodoc]

Nice. This is how it should work - the Senate should consider the bill that the House has sent them, and amend it as they see fit. Send it back to the House etc.

Obamacare has faults, but they can be addressed piecemeal as they arise. Doing something, rather than nothing, is a start. The end product will have been worked on and hammered out over many years and won't resemble the beginning. That's all right. We need the will to start correcting things.

[Lamplighter]

Obamacare has faults...

which are as follows: