*shaking head*

[elSicomoro]

I feel like sometimes, we're put into a health circle of death. Food producers make shitty food that we consume that makes us sick. That sends us to a doctor or hospital where we/insurance/government spend tons of money for the latest and greatest technology. Meanwhile, the hospitals serve shitty food...and we don't learn from our mistakes.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There is one metric that they never ever ever study in such studies and that metric is, where are the fucking cures coming from? Because that is kind of important.
....

The level of socialization in a system doesn't seem to matter much. The UK is clearly punching above its weight. Single-payer Canada, socialized Sweden, big underachievers. Moneyed Japan, huge underachiever. But it's clear, without the US system, 57% of the discoveries since 1945 do not happen, and the rest of the world continues to die in their systems that have not benefitted from advancements and discoveries.

~ You're welcome ~

I also feel that our metrics would be a lot better without a permanently unhealthy underclass who eat shitty, go around shooting each other, generally hate doctors, have terrible hygiene, etc. I suppose every nation suffers from that to a degree. But when it comes to longevity our ghetto males and steady trickle of Mexicans have a life expectancy of around 65, and it isn't actually due to lack of doctorin' so much as lack of maintenance. If you don't do oil changes expect your car to die.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I know that and, really, what people never consider is that the US system is pretty socialized anyway. With Medicare, Medicaid and now O'care, state and federal governments pay for over half the medicine that is happening in this country.

It seems like you're saying that our non-socialized system results in more advances, but then you point out that over half of our system is "socialized".

Please clarify

I'd like to add that R&D in the US is hugely subsidized (socialized).

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by elSicomoro

I feel like sometimes, we're put into a health circle of death. Food producers make shitty food that we consume that makes us sick. That sends us to a doctor or hospital where we/insurance/government spend tons of money for the latest and greatest technology. Meanwhile, the hospitals serve shitty food...and we don't learn from our mistakes.

It's planned obsolescence - human style

[Undertoad]

It seems like you're saying that our non-socialized system results in more advances

Please point out where I said or hinted at that

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Please point out where I said or hinted at that

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Single-payer Canada, socialized Sweden, big underachievers.

[DanaC]

Oh now - be fair that came directly after:

The level of socialization in a system doesn't seem to matter much. The UK is clearly punching above its weight.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Oh now - be fair that came directly after:

i'm not making any kind of accusation.

Never mind

[Undertoad]

What I truly believe is, and you can just ask me, you don't have to dance around it, what I believe is that any nation that has its shit together can produce a high quality medical system, no matter who's paying for it... if that's where the people's priorities are. If the people demand it, expect it, and have enough voice to the layers that can make a difference, then pressures will make it come about.

As to what causes a nation to get its shit together, that is another thread for another day.

[Spexxvet]

That's plain enough