QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS SITE

[ZenGum]

I'm ambivalent about banning, but for the first time evah I used the ignore feature.

Took me ages to find it, too.

[DanaC]

Good point Monster, hadn't really thought about it like that.

Whilst we're at it, can we please ban the fuck out of JBKlyde? He's gone way too far, I don't want him anywhere near this place.

[Ibby]

It's going to happen, give the mods a minute.

[BigV]

I don't agree that JBKlyde should be banned.

[DanaC]

Seriously? Have you see what he said about going postal and blowing away a gay pride march?

[ZenGum]

I just read the Sexual Imorality thread.
I think his behaviour there is unacceptable hate speech.
But, I think he is obviously mentally ill, and may benefit from the cellar as a stabilising influence.
Perhaps temporary banning might be considered.

[ZenGum]

hehe .. now if he's said he was going to go to a gay parade and blow them all, that would be different.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Seriously? Have you see what he said about going postal and blowing away a gay pride march?

Yes.

I stand by my position. What rule has he broken?

I strongly oppose the silencing of voices because I disagree with them. And if you go back and re-read his comments, there's an important "if" that gets forgotten about is postal-ness. Even Ted Nugent who is at least as nutz as JBKlyde didn't have his remarks taken seriously. I think a far stricter standard of literal validity is being applied to this remark than to countless other remarks that are just as outrageous.

It is a bad idea to surround oneself with only pleasant, agreeable opinions. He hasn't broken any of our rules in my opinion and therefore does not deserve to be banned.

[DanaC]

I think it has to be taken in the context of several weeks of rising hostility and nasty comments to and about Ibs regarding sexual orientation.

Maybe Zen's right and a temp ban is appropriate I don;t know. But JBKlyde has spent the last couple of weeks sniping and making anti-gay comments and generally going out of his way to insult and hurt another board member on the grounds of sexuality and gender identity.

Had this been an isolated incident I'd be a little less annoyed.

[BigV]

We have many set pieces of serious conflict. Even mercy earned place in Ibram's signature for the vitriol of his comments made about the same subject, only more personal. There was no call for a ban then, why?

And it takes two to fight. I've been reading and I haven't seen the focused aggression you describe. Even so, that's not grounds for banning. It's a textbook example for ignoring. And it has also been a textbook example of a flamefest. I don't see any offense justifying a ban. If it's /airquote just /airquote "JFC, you are the most offensive person I've ever met." there are more appropriate responses than banning.

[DanaC]

Actually there were calls for a ban with Merc. And Merc took a break and apologised. And understood why what he'd said was offensive.


[eta] as I recall that incident led to Ibram staying away from the Cellar for quite a long time. Even with the other person on ignore, knowing that he is there making nasty homophobic comments is likely to make this place feel a lot less welcoming and safe for those who are already dealing with some quite complex stuff.

That said, yes, I understand that much of this may be a manifestation of his mental illness and as such warrants a more understanding attitude. But, the ramifications of that understanding could well be that other members here feel les welcome and less inclined to be here.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by DanaC

And understood why what he'd said was offensive.

Even if i still do have my problems with merc, so much THIS. without understanding what's so unbelievably poisonous about what he said, there can certainly be no constructive progression.

Even if to Dana this is about his attacks on me and my identity, shit, i couldn't care less about him telling me i'm gonna burn in hell. It's threats of literal violence and hate crimes where I draw the ban-line in this case.

[DanaC]

The thing is though it isn't just you Ibs. There are several people on this board whose particular gender identity or sexual orientation make such issues a matter of personal concern. These people are our friends and I do not think they should be subjected to that kind of shit here/ Not here/ The world is a cold place at times, but this is the Cellar.

I'd feel much the same way if someone were to make comments about how people with disabilities or mental illness should be culled for the health of the nation. is it a viable threat? No. Is it intolerably offensive to anybody with a disability, mental health condition, or relative with either? Yes.

[Ibby]

I dunno - I'm with V that just subjecting people to "that kind of shit" isn't in-and-of-itself bannable. Again, it's the threat of violence where I draw the line.

[DanaC]

"That kind of shit" by which I mean hate-speech against groups of people on the grounds of race, gender or sexual orientation.

Someone makes a dodgy joke about gay cowboys, well the world is harsh, get a helmet. Someone makes comments advocating violence against gays/queers/niggers/towelheads/Jews/etc that is unacceptable and in my view likely to make the Cellar feel like an unwelcoming place.

My point is that it is not to do with how real the threat is. Hate speech isn't defined by how likely the speaker is to carry out his voiced threats. Couching it in hypothetical terms (if I were to go postal I'd...) and calling it a joke does not stop it being hate speech. It's only a 'joke' because of the response it gets. On another forum with different response who knows where that would go.

Hate speech has no place. No fucking place whatsoever on the Cellar.

As I say, maybe Zen's right and a temporay ban is in order. Maybe JBKlyde will respond to that by not voicing such things in here again. I don't know. I just know that either he, or the hate speech has to go.