Any comments about Mr Madoff? - Page 11

glatt · 03-11-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Well my take is, since he didn't make a deal, they are not protected.

Yes and no. While it's true that there is no official protection from the government now, any deal he would have made would have required him to divulge information about the entire scam and would likely have implicated his family. So making a deal for a lighter sentence would have hurt his family more than pleading guilty and shutting his mouth. He is protecting the family from the government as best he can by staying quiet. They are more protected this way.

sugarpop · 03-11-2009, 06:20 PM

I suppose time will tell. If he had a made a deal, he might have been able to get them immunity. But then again, maybe not. IF they are guilty, I hope they go down as well. Too many people and organizations were hurt by his actions.

classicman · 03-12-2009, 01:18 PM

Billionaire Stanford to take the 5th in fraud case

Quote:

DALLAS – Texas billionaire R. Allen Stanford and one of his top officials have asserted their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in the federal government's fraud case against them and Stanford's companies, according to court documents filed Wednesday.

Stanford said he will "decline to testify, provide an accounting or produce any documents" related to the Securities and Exchange Commission's civil case, which accuses him of running a "massive Ponzi scheme."

Finance chief James M. Davis, using similar language, also asserted his right not to incriminate himself.

Anyone for waterboarding?

Pie · 03-12-2009, 01:32 PM

No.

Shawnee123 · 03-12-2009, 01:32 PM

Yeah, I have a comment. He's been wearing a bullet-proof vest going to court, because so many people are so angry, but his big giant pasty head is hanging out there like a beacon. Why don't people ever get bullet-proof ski masks or something?

Pico and ME · 03-12-2009, 01:33 PM

lol.

classicman · 03-12-2009, 02:53 PM

Should I have put a smilie on that Pie?

Pie · 03-12-2009, 03:04 PM

No. It's still a little too close to the bone for me to take it as a joke.
But to quote you -- "Hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine."

classicman · 03-12-2009, 03:38 PM

Well it was intended as a joke.

Clodfobble · 03-12-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I too hope they investigate AND prosecute all of them. Perhaps seize their assets as well and put it towards those who were wronged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I agree glatt, I think he is trying to protect his family and whomever. Sickens me that he is basically gonna get away with it.

But... but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Hypothetically speaking, if Madoff's kids weren't involved with defrauding billions from investors, but they clearly benefited financially, are they guilty of anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

No

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

What if they don't return the money once they find out about the fraud? Are they guilty then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

No

WTF? Please explain.

classicman · 03-12-2009, 06:23 PM

Try this

Clodfobble · 03-12-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Guilt to me acknowledges some culpability and/or responsibility. As the questions were worded, I had to answer them the way I did. I have no control over another person.

There is a difference between guilt or remorse and empathy. If someone was wronged by my great grandfather, for example, thats on him not me. What could I have done about it? I wasn't there I wasn't born yet. I feel no responsibility for the actions of someone else, what difference does it make if they were/are a distant relative or a complete stranger? If my cousin kills someone, should I go to jail?

Just making sure I understand... So your desire to see his wife/children prosecuted stems entirely from the hypothesis that they are also guilty? And their guilt rests entirely on whether they *knew* Madoff was doing illegal things, not necessarily participating in the business? And then based on that, you would support confiscating "their assets as well" (say, his wife's salary from some unrelated job) because they are guilty to begin with so their punishment can be in any form?

So if I steal a million dollars, and just walk up and give it to a stranger on the street, that stranger doesn't have to return it?

classicman · 03-12-2009, 09:20 PM

If someone was knowingly doing something illegal, yes. Otherwise, wouldn't we have to punish everyone who worked there? As far as confiscating the wife's salary from another job or other unrelated sources.... I dunno how to figure all that out. Thats a little beyond me. I guess if we could say that she is responsible for x dollars illegally then she should surrender that same amount. Could/should we add a punitive amount on top of that??? I don't know how to calculate all of it. What do you think?

ZenGum · 03-13-2009, 12:08 AM

Person A owns a car.
Person B steals it and sells it to person C, who does not know it is stolen.

Dunno about you lot, but down here, C is not guilty of any crime, but must give the car back to A.
General principle: you can't keep stolen stuff even if you didn't know it was stolen when you got it.

So for the Madoff family, they should be stipped of all assets that the didn't earn themselves. IMHO YMMV etc...

xoxoxoBruce · 03-13-2009, 01:04 AM

The whole family were officers in Madoff's operation. It's impossible for them not to have known.

03-12-2009, 01:32 PM	#154
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	No. __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

03-12-2009, 01:32 PM	#155
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Yeah, I have a comment. He's been wearing a bullet-proof vest going to court, because so many people are so angry, but his big giant pasty head is hanging out there like a beacon. Why don't people ever get bullet-proof ski masks or something? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

03-12-2009, 02:53 PM	#157
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Should I have put a smilie on that Pie? __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-12-2009, 03:04 PM	#158
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	No. It's still a little too close to the bone for me to take it as a joke. But to quote you -- "Hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine." __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

03-12-2009, 03:38 PM	#159
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Well it was intended as a joke. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-11-2009, 06:20 PM	#152
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	I suppose time will tell. If he had a made a deal, he might have been able to get them immunity. But then again, maybe not. IF they are guilty, I hope they go down as well. Too many people and organizations were hurt by his actions.

03-12-2009, 01:33 PM	#156
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	lol.

03-12-2009, 06:23 PM	#161
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Try this __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-12-2009, 09:20 PM	#163
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	If someone was knowingly doing something illegal, yes. Otherwise, wouldn't we have to punish everyone who worked there? As far as confiscating the wife's salary from another job or other unrelated sources.... I dunno how to figure all that out. Thats a little beyond me. I guess if we could say that she is responsible for x dollars illegally then she should surrender that same amount. Could/should we add a punitive amount on top of that??? I don't know how to calculate all of it. What do you think? __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-13-2009, 12:08 AM	#164
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Person A owns a car. Person B steals it and sells it to person C, who does not know it is stolen. Dunno about you lot, but down here, C is not guilty of any crime, but must give the car back to A. General principle: you can't keep stolen stuff even if you didn't know it was stolen when you got it. So for the Madoff family, they should be stipped of all assets that the didn't earn themselves. IMHO YMMV etc... __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

03-13-2009, 01:04 AM	#165
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The whole family were officers in Madoff's operation. It's impossible for them not to have known. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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