Immigration

[Pie]

The only rule that matters: Take what you want, screw the other guy.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Hmmmm, kind of hard to call European immigrants 'illegal' when that term is dependant on a preexisting structure of laws and an actual country to make them, neither of which were here when they arrived.

Oh my goodness, you are very wrong. There most certainly were governments on this land pre-European migration. The current U.S. government system is based on one of them. Europeans were welcomed by some (i.e. given "legal" status), and rejected by others (therefore, "illegal"). Some were initially accepted, then rejected, and vice-versa. As we can all see, the tradition of rejecting/accepting perceived outsiders has continued throughout U.S. history, up to the present time.

Yes , the Pilgrim Fathers were treated kindly by the Native Americans , in fact their lives were saved by the Native Americans who helped them through that first awful winter . I believe that your Thanksgiving festival is based on this kindness .

And then the Native Americans were rejected .

Is that what you meant by acceptance and rejection , bluecuracao ?

[Griff]

The League of the Iroquois for instance.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Buddug

Yes , the Pilgrim Fathers were treated kindly by the Native Americans , in fact their lives were saved by the Native Americans who helped them through that first awful winter . I believe that your Thanksgiving festival is based on this kindness .

And then the Native Americans were rejected .

Is that what you meant by acceptance and rejection , bluecuracao ?

No, I talking about Europeans; but you're right, Native Central and South Americans are many of the ones being rejected right now.

Illegal is illegal. We can't accept everyone, all the time.
It ain't hard.

[xoxoxoBruce]

We're still accepting more than any other country in the World.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

The League of the Iroquois for instance.

The confederation sounds very civilized, doesn't it?
Bullshit. The member tribes routinely raped and pillaged each other, killing the men and taking the women and children hostage.
The harsh life they led, especially in the northern climes, meant the size of any tribe could fall quickly. That would guarantee being attacked by someone.
At one point they controlled the northeast quarter of what is now the US, plus part of Canada. Hundreds of tribes lived on this land... smaller, weaker tribes, that were routinely savaged by the confederation members and forced to give up any wealth.

The Europeans played the same game, i.e., you could have as much land and wealth as you could win and hold. They lost a lot of battles but they won the war.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

And if a rule is inconvenient (ie a treaty giving the natives some land that turns out to be valuable after all), you just ignore it.

If you don't like it, you are welcome to try to return to the land of your European foreparents. They probably don't want you, as a number of discouraged liberals found out in 2004.

[Happy Monkey]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make or refute there. You like illegal immigration?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

We're still accepting more than any other country in the World.

Exactly, and they still bitch. As always, those who give the most get griped at the most.

[bluecuracao]

Who's bitchin'?

Those who don't want us to enforce our, perfectly reasonable, immigration laws.

[Ibby]

I'M totally bitchin'. Got bitchin' clothes, bitchin' hair, and REALLY bitchin' shoes.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Those who don't want us to enforce our, perfectly reasonable, immigration laws.

Oh.


I could be one of "those" I guess, except that I think "our" immigration laws are far from "perfectly" reasonable.

(aren't quotation marks fun?)