8/21/2003: Huge pig sacrificed

[Whit]

From Bugz:
Or, if you'd rather, I could just not reply to any of your posts assuming I wasn't referenced in any of them.

      One thing I'd like to make perfectly clear right here and right now. I never suggest someone not talk. While you're to new to remember this Bugz I even backed UT's decision to not kick Radar as many people wanted, and Radar and I really didn't get along well. I believe strongly in the idea of free speech. Which is why I've been such a smartass about what I'm allowed to say.
      Having said that, I defend both my right to 'goose' Bruce about something you said and Dagney's right to respond to your response directly to me. Discussion boards like this one are free for all's, not private talks. On this play ground everybody gets to play.

      By the by, nobody here is interested in apologies. That's why apologizing doesn't seem to get you where you seem to think it should. We'd rather you not feel bad in the first place which is why you've gotten so many "How did I offend you?" replies. Lighten up, you'll be happier for it.

[Whit]

From Bruce:
If I should inadvertently post something that offends your sensibilities, fuck you.

      Bruce, I just want you to know that this upset me so much that I cried like a little girl for over an hour.

      Dagney, having read your recent posts I think Brian is a lucky man. If he ever pisses you off then come on by, I've got a fair collection of Ayn Rand we could discuss.:p (Brian j/k about the "come by" thing, no need to kick my ass or anything)

[LUVBUGZ]

Juju and Whit

As I was trying to figure out a way to cease the endless bullshit in some of the threads in here I thought to myself, well, if I just delete everything I ever wrote then there would be nothing left to piss people off anymore. So away I went, then on the third post I believe it was I got a message that it was too late to delete anymore. I didn't know you were keeping such close tabs on me. So, if either of you can tell me a way to retrieve deleted posts, I'll gladly repost them for your reading pleasure. No matter what I do in here it's wrong. I try being nice, I try being reasonable, I try saying what I am *really* thinking, I get pissed off, I try apologizing. Nothing seems to work. I don't know what you people want from me. I'm over here trying to have a civil conversation with Juju and he's over in Philosophy talking shit about me, which in turn gets Whit on the band wagon again. Whit, go ahead goose Bruce about something I said, but can you please explain why it is not OK for me to goose you back when I realize that your comment is indirectly goosing me too. Why is it that when I do the same thing I'm the asshole? Great, let Dagney get in on the action too, but why is it that she has free range on giving her opinion about me, but when I do the same I'm the biggest fucking bitch around?

[Whit]

From Bugz:
Whit, go ahead goose Bruce about something I said, but can you please explain why it is not OK for me to goose you back when I realize that your comment is indirectly goosing me too.

      What are you talking about? You didn't 'goose' me, you told me to stop talking about it. There was really no humor involved. For the record I did drop it at that point. As near as I can tell you have decided to try and paint me as a hypocrite, only I'm not one and no (accurate) quote you can come up with will show that I am. I never said it wasn't okay for you to say anything. I've even been nice while you made false accusations and deliberately misquoted me repeatedly. I have pointed out some of the misquotes and just about everyone on the board has told you that you're not being attacked, calm down.
      Now, to reiterate on the point of if you can 'goose' me.

Posted by me awhile ago:
One thing I'd like to make perfectly clear right here and right now. I never suggest someone not talk.

      You've not been attacked, nobody hates you and I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with it.

[Uryoces]

I haven't been following the thread, but it's getting ridiculously long. "This thread goes to eleven..." Something about a pig I am led to believe. -oink- I guess the one thing I've seen here is that the posts can seem pretty vitriloic sometimes, but there is a level of respect; there is a thread [pun] of constructive thought and humor. There are some fairly heavy and important things being discussed here, but I get the feeling that there is some kind of huge Monty Python sketch undercurrent to all this. Don't take most of this seriously, and more importantly, don't take yourself too seriously. I should point out by "you" I mean any of the earthlings on this board.

That being said, you are all the biggest bunch of freaks I've ever known, and I feel lucky for the chance to spew alphabet soup at you all once in a while.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by Whit
      You've not been attacked, nobody hates you and I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with it.

For the last time, I AM NOT SAYING I'M BEING ATTACKED. You guys are the one making this comment. Where exactly in my above post did I say YOU'RE ATTACKING ME? My God, talk about making "false accusations" and "repeatedly misquoting deliberately". I just want to know why it is OK for everyone else to do the same thing I'm doing, but I'm the asshole????? Please answer this for me.

[Whit]

      Haven't said you're being attacked? Let's backtrack through the last few posts shall we? You say "you're the asshole" calling people foul names is a form of attack, nobody called you that or really treated you like that. Hmm, you say Juju was talking shit about you, he rightly pointed out that you deleted posts, I'll get back to the problem with that. Ah, now you're saying you're the "biggest bitch around," see above. Hey, you never did say who "chewed you out" on the pagan thread, just noticed that and it would qualify as an attack. That brings us back to "it seems like many people are bitching at me at once..." Bitching at someone is generally considered a form of attack. That's just scanning down this page. Oh yeah, then there was when you accused me of not letting you have your own opinion on the 'Bridge' thread. You even suggested I would want kids with you opinion to die. That definitely qualifies as an 'attack' and it was definitely imagined by you. I was just giving my opinion while reading yours. We say attack, you say we've treated you like a bitch, an asshole, chewed you out, bitched you out, and taken away your right to an opinion. We've just used more polite words than you. I'd say that covers the attack issue.
      Ooops, I forgot to mention earlier, we weren't keeping tabs on you per se, we had simply read the thread before and the deletions were pretty obvious.
     Ah yes, I said I'd get back to that. Etiquette note, it's usually considered borderline deceptive to delete posts more than a few minutes after you post them. The reason is that it comes across as trying to deny you said what you said. That's the beauty of a board is that everyone can look back on what you said previously. I thought it was funny, thus made fun of it. Juju, on the other hand, is an old hand at this kind of thing and I suspect that he took it much more seriously. Like you were covering up what you had said rather than trying to get past it by doing better in the future.
      As far as Dagney goes, she gives reasons for what she says, or bases them in forum culture that Juju suggested in one thread that you simply weren't familiar with. She also does it with style.

      Now, be specific, what is it that everyone is doing that you are not allowed to?

[Whit]

      Uryoces, dude, I only wish this melodrama was monty Python stuff. I've had a fair amount of laughs from it though. Just look around the board a bit. Parts of this fiasco are on a variety of forums.
      Oh, and we prefer to be called "Terrans", which sounds much cooler than "earthling", which just comes off as condescending.

[LUVBUGZ]

All right, I give up. Like I said no matter what I do it's wrong. Think what you want, say what you want, misquote, generalize, assume, attack, don't attack, comment, don't comment, do whatever you all want to do. I'm just going to try and stay out of your ways. I'll try to limit my posts to the few people in here who don't seem to have a problem me, my ignorance of forum etiquette, my communication skills, or lack thereof, and generally everything else that is so offensive to the rest of you.

[Whit]

      Oh for christ's sake woman, can't you see we're not taking this time out to respond to you to be cruel, but actually to try to help you? Also, it's a freakin' discussion board, no matter where you post we will still read it.
      Once more, and with real feeling, we, generally speaking, aren't offended. You just keep going off at bizarre moments and we're trying to figure out why.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by Whit
      Oh for christ's sake woman, can't you see we're not taking this time out to respond to you to be cruel, but actually to try to help you? Also, it's a freakin' discussion board, no matter where you post we will still read it.
      Once more, and with real feeling, we, generally speaking, aren't offended. You just keep going off at bizarre moments and we're trying to figure out why.

OK Whit, thank you and all involved for trying to help me. I realize no matter where I post you'll still read it, but there are some people in here who actually tolerate me the way I am and I would like to continue conversing with them. I can only hope to move on from here and try not to piss off any of those who have offered such kind advice in the past. If I may make a suggestion, don't waste your time trying to figure me out, I think I'm an enigma, albeit a rather distasteful one at that.

[Whit]

      Bugz, you aren't an enigma. I think I understand you pretty well. That's the only reason I've not, at any point, gotten pissed off at you myself. Would you please, possibly, maybe, consider actually listening to me on one point? I say me but actually you've been hearing this from all sides, including some of the people you say 'tolerate' you.

From Bugz:
...and try not to piss off any of those who...

      You see this? This clearly shows that you refuse to consider the outside chance that you've been the one that's gotten pissed first. Please reread some of the pre-problem posts as if we weren't talking to you. Maybe then you'll see we were talking to you like we would anyone else and it upset you. Even going back to your first big problem, Quazah, he posted a generaly pissy comment and you took it personal. Dozens of people on the board and you were the only one that was bothered by it.
      I don't see any reason for you to have to curb your posting back to only a select few. Just friggin' relax, being that sensitive to what people say can't be good for your ego. Simply put, you are seeing anger, directed at you, where there is none. To fix the problem don't stop talking, recognize your tendancy to do that and double check yourself. Actively try to be more objective about what others say instead of jumping to the defense.
      Best of luck.

[quzah]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ

Quzah, I don't know why you are so concerened about my "misjudging" and "insulting" you, remember saying this..."You all have the misgiving that I actually care what you think about me." And you have said yourself that you're an asshole, I was just agreeing with you.

There was no concern. I was illustrating a point using you as an example. It should have been quite clear. I was expalining that the comment could have been taken as an insult, and that it is quite possible to insult someone by misjudging them.

That was the entire point of the quote / message. It has nothing to do with how I actually took the message. I was pointing out that it could be taken a given way.

Quzah.

[quzah]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
Yea, Bruce I'm taken aback, but not by the resistance to what I "think" is a given. To me it *is* a given, period. I thought I would attempt to show this to others, but obviously I have failed. I've learned one thing though through all this, that if someone is too fucking stupid to realize the benefits of spaying and neutering their pets, then I can talk until I'm blue in the face and it won't change one damn thing. So from now on unless someone shows that they have the intelligence level to hold a rational conversation I'm not going to waste my time and energy dealing with them. Unfortunate as that sounds, my sanity is more important to me than trying to change the views of irrational people.

But you weren't trumpeting the values of the sterilization. You were saying that they would choose castration if you could explain it to them, and I was calling you on it. No male dog would opt for castration unless he knew he had testicular cancer. Period.

Quzah.

[quzah]

Originally posted by bmgb
Let's see... would my Dusty (cat) prefer to be living in the wild (or more likely, on the street) having promiscuous sex with tomcats and squeezing out litter after starving litter of unwanted kitties? Or would she prefer to be living in my climate-controlled house, eating to her hearts content and cuddling with me? I think the answer is clear, and she tells me this everyday (in not so many words).

Having her live with me and not be spayed is not really an option. Then she would be rolling around and caterwauling, wondering why she can't get laid. (There is only room for ONE female doing that in my household.)

There you go. You've just contradicted yourself. You have obsoleted your argument.

You say: "Would my cat choose..." when you've already made the choice for them. You can say they'd want it, but that's just to make you feel better about yourself for having done it.

Second off, from the sound of it, your cat is housed. Meaning, it is kept indoors. Thus, you are not giving it the choice. You are again making it for them.

If you really believe that they would choose to be spayed with you, do this:

1) Get a new born kitten.
2) Install a cat door.
3) Do not sterilize your cat.
4) Be amazed when your cat comes and goes as it pleases, running around the neighborhood mating at every oportunity.

You see, you are flat out wrong. Your animal would not choose to be sterilized. Period. No animal would choose sterlization. Since LB is so big on biology, this should be crystal clear. Remember "hard wired"? Well no animal on earth would choose sterilization, especially since the sterilization done commonly would alter their normal behavior.

You can pretend all you want that they'd like it, but the fact is, you're wrong. No animal would opt for this. It goes against their "hard wiring".

No animal would choose to be spayed or nutering. Period. You're kidding yourself if you say you believe otherwise.

That being said, I have never said it was a bad thing to keep the "pet population" under control. I simply stated that no animal would choose the operation. It is asanine to believe so.

Quzah.