Men Abortion and Choice - Page 2

freshnesschronic · 08-07-2007, 07:31 PM

And now for the opinion that no one really wants to here on this issue:

I think men should get out of any legislation, court or anything that has to deal with abortion. It's actually confusing to me how men can be pro-life, IMO. Personally, I feel that's all up to her. A man ("as much as it is his") shouldn't be able to overlord something that is happening to a woman's body. She can and has all the right to do whatever she wants to do and a man can only and should only act accordingly.

The Chris Rock joke goes like this: "When she comes from outta the bathroom an' she got that "shit it happened" look on her face you got two options. You can say "Oh, I'm so happy, I will be a great father and am really looking forward to our baby!" or you can look at her like a deer in headlights an' say "....so whachu gonna do?"

Stormieweather · 08-07-2007, 07:40 PM

So if men get the right to force a woman to take a pregnancy to term if he DOES want to be a father, should he also get the right to force her to terminate the pregnancy if he DOES NOT want to be a father? If not, how can you possibly advocate one without the other? If so, doesn't that give men full control over the reproductive function of a woman's body?

Just asking....

Stormie

DanaC · 08-07-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Well I guess that's where we differ. My idea of owning up is having the baby, yours is doing exclusively what is in the best interest of the mother.

Sometimes it's the right decision to make. I can hardly imagine it is an easy one. Making a decision like that is, like it or not, dealing with the consequences of her actions in a very immediate, and difficult to handle, way. This isn't about 'owning up', in my view. To me, the woman is making a choice about her body. The foetus is part of her body.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-07-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

So, any woman who's old enough and with the mental capacity to understand that sex can and does lead to pregnancy, even if protection is used, loses the final say over whether she has to carry any baby to term? Simply because she chose to have sex with a man, he gets to make decisions about what she does with her body?

I'd rather see legislation that leaves the decision of the fetus entirely to the woman.... and the decision whether or not they have sex entirely to the man.

lumberjim · 08-07-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

If the male states that he wishes to choose full custody of the child that should be his right.
It is his child as much as hers.

as long as the man can take the child at the point of that decision and carry it to term in his own womb, i agree. otherwise......stfu. think about it.

piercehawkeye45 · 08-07-2007, 09:08 PM

I have a question for everyone.

Would you consider forcing a women to give birth to an unwanted baby torture and why or why not?

bluecuracao · 08-07-2007, 09:17 PM

Absolutely. Pregnancy can create extreme physical and/or mental hardship. It's not a 'natural' state for every woman.

Crimson Ghost · 08-08-2007, 01:56 AM

I am about to start a shitstorm of epic proportions ...

Does this legislation cover -

1. Pregnancy from rape? What kind of repercussions will be felt when a rape victim is told - "You want to terminate this pregnancy? You have to ask the rapist for his permission to terminate."

2. The father is dead? For instance - Woman finds out she's pregnant, the problem being that the child will be deformed. She decides to terminate. The father died between insemination and discovery of situation.

3. The pregnancy will, without a doubt, be harmful to the mother and/or child. However, the father refuses to abort. Will the state wait until the mother and/or child dies in childbirth to file charges against the father?

I shall now duck and cover.........

Ibby · 08-08-2007, 02:09 AM

Men should absolutely, positively, 100% have a say in whether or not a woman gets an abortion...

On a personal level. Legally, legislatively, authoritatively? He has absolutely no right to any say whatsoever.

Aliantha · 08-08-2007, 04:12 AM

If a man wants full custody of the child, then he should be off looking for a surrogate to carry the child to term for him. That's the only solution because ultimately it's the woman's body and if he thought it might be nice to be a daddy, he should have discussed that prior to getting his cock out.

If it's unexpected, it might be unwanted by one or both. Neither has the right to force the other to comply and the state should have absolutely no say what so ever.

DanaC · 08-08-2007, 05:20 AM

I'd agree with that Ali.

yesman065 · 08-08-2007, 07:33 AM

All of what everyone is saying seems to hinge on WHEN the "fetus" is determined to be a "child." At what point does the child earn those rights? Upon conception, 3 months, 6 months....not until birth? Thats the real issue, no?

If it is considered a child upon conception - what right does the mother have to KILL it? However, if it is not considered "human" until birth, then one could argue that everything between conception and birth is entirely up to the woman. The difficulty comes into play during the undefined period between conception and birth where we recognize the fetus as a child. I'm thinking as I'm typing, and thats always dangerous for me, but what if at, say 6 & 1/2 months the "mother" decided to (and I love this nonpersonal terminology) terminate the pregnancy? Is/would that be ok and should the father have no say under those circumstances?

DanaC · 08-08-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

but what if at, say 6 & 1/2 months the "mother" decided to (and I love this nonpersonal terminology) terminate the pregnancy? Is/would that be ok and should the father have no say under those circumstances?

There are laws in place to limit the circumstances in which a woman can seek an abortion. These laws are mainly to do with ensuring that abortions take place at the earliest possible point in the pregnancy.

Personally? I think that no man, and no government should have the right to dictate that a woman carry a child to term. As long as that baby is inside her body it is a part of her. Physically. It does not, to me, take on a separate identity until it has left the mother's body.

smurfalicious · 08-08-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

Men should absolutely, positively, 100% have a say in whether or not a woman gets an abortion... On a personal level. Legally, legislatively, authoritatively? He has absolutely no right to any say whatsoever.

Right on.

Quote:

In most cases, when a child is born the father has financial responsibility for that child, so he should have a say.

Wow. I didn't realize men only had a financial responsibility to children, and that that's the motivating factor for this legislation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ghost

I am about to start a shitstorm of epic proportions ...

1. And what about when the status of the consentuality of the sex is unclear or alleged?
2. I guess if he's dead, then it doesn't matter. Sounds like a precursor to a Fark story: Not news: Woman kills father of child for insurance proceeds. Fark: Woman kills father of child so she can have abortion.
3. Or how about even "high risk" pregnancies (although all pregnancies carry a huge risk to the mother) where it's more of a guess as to whether or not there could be severe complications?

Cicero · 08-08-2007, 04:35 PM

Hey- how 'bout it- lets start the process already, I'm all for it!

If you want control of what your semen does inside our bodies and want to take more responsibility, you can also start paying when your semen mutates into Uterian Cancer instead of a baby...oh yeah.....that can happen too...And it can also come right out of your damned paycheck. States Orders. Awesome! It's nice of you to want to be more involved and responsible for your bi-products.
If men want to continue to become more and more responsible with what their little seamen, bi-products, and bacterium does to our bodies....bring it the Fu** on.....let's do it. You are not going to like it.
But it would be a good education, for all of us.

08-07-2007, 07:40 PM	#17
Stormieweather Wearing her bitch boots Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,181	So if men get the right to force a woman to take a pregnancy to term if he DOES want to be a father, should he also get the right to force her to terminate the pregnancy if he DOES NOT want to be a father? If not, how can you possibly advocate one without the other? If so, doesn't that give men full control over the reproductive function of a woman's body? Just asking.... Stormie __________________ "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

08-08-2007, 01:56 AM	#23
Crimson Ghost Larger than life and twice as ugly. Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,264	I am about to start a shitstorm of epic proportions ... Does this legislation cover - 1. Pregnancy from rape? What kind of repercussions will be felt when a rape victim is told - "You want to terminate this pregnancy? You have to ask the rapist for his permission to terminate." 2. The father is dead? For instance - Woman finds out she's pregnant, the problem being that the child will be deformed. She decides to terminate. The father died between insemination and discovery of situation. 3. The pregnancy will, without a doubt, be harmful to the mother and/or child. However, the father refuses to abort. Will the state wait until the mother and/or child dies in childbirth to file charges against the father? I shall now duck and cover......... __________________ We must all go through a rite of passage. It must be physical, it must be painful, and it must leave a mark. I have no knowledge of the events which you are describing, and if I did have knowledge of them, I would be unable to discuss them with you now or at any future period. Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years

08-08-2007, 02:09 AM	#24
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Men should absolutely, positively, 100% have a say in whether or not a woman gets an abortion... On a personal level. Legally, legislatively, authoritatively? He has absolutely no right to any say whatsoever. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

08-08-2007, 04:12 AM	#25
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	If a man wants full custody of the child, then he should be off looking for a surrogate to carry the child to term for him. That's the only solution because ultimately it's the woman's body and if he thought it might be nice to be a daddy, he should have discussed that prior to getting his cock out. If it's unexpected, it might be unwanted by one or both. Neither has the right to force the other to comply and the state should have absolutely no say what so ever. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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08-07-2007, 07:31 PM	#16
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	And now for the opinion that no one really wants to here on this issue: I think men should get out of any legislation, court or anything that has to deal with abortion. It's actually confusing to me how men can be pro-life, IMO. Personally, I feel that's all up to her. A man ("as much as it is his") shouldn't be able to overlord something that is happening to a woman's body. She can and has all the right to do whatever she wants to do and a man can only and should only act accordingly. The Chris Rock joke goes like this: "When she comes from outta the bathroom an' she got that "shit it happened" look on her face you got two options. You can say "Oh, I'm so happy, I will be a great father and am really looking forward to our baby!" or you can look at her like a deer in headlights an' say "....so whachu gonna do?"

08-07-2007, 09:08 PM	#21
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I have a question for everyone. Would you consider forcing a women to give birth to an unwanted baby torture and why or why not?

08-07-2007, 09:17 PM	#22
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	Absolutely. Pregnancy can create extreme physical and/or mental hardship. It's not a 'natural' state for every woman.

08-08-2007, 05:20 AM	#26
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I'd agree with that Ali.

08-08-2007, 07:33 AM	#27
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	All of what everyone is saying seems to hinge on WHEN the "fetus" is determined to be a "child." At what point does the child earn those rights? Upon conception, 3 months, 6 months....not until birth? Thats the real issue, no? If it is considered a child upon conception - what right does the mother have to KILL it? However, if it is not considered "human" until birth, then one could argue that everything between conception and birth is entirely up to the woman. The difficulty comes into play during the undefined period between conception and birth where we recognize the fetus as a child. I'm thinking as I'm typing, and thats always dangerous for me, but what if at, say 6 & 1/2 months the "mother" decided to (and I love this nonpersonal terminology) terminate the pregnancy? Is/would that be ok and should the father have no say under those circumstances?

08-08-2007, 04:35 PM	#30
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Hey- how 'bout it- lets start the process already, I'm all for it! If you want control of what your semen does inside our bodies and want to take more responsibility, you can also start paying when your semen mutates into Uterian Cancer instead of a baby...oh yeah.....that can happen too...And it can also come right out of your damned paycheck. States Orders. Awesome! It's nice of you to want to be more involved and responsible for your bi-products. If men want to continue to become more and more responsible with what their little seamen, bi-products, and bacterium does to our bodies....bring it the Fu on.....let's do it. You are not going to like it. But it would be a good education**, for all of us.

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