Can we stop talking about friggin' immigration?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by monster

Being fair, I hear people say shit about immigrants all the time. But what they really mean is illegals. Look how you've all jumped in to "defend" yourselves on Blue's perfectly legitimate nothingland thread. you could have just ignored it, but you know at some level you're guilty too, or you wouldn't be so touchy

I hear people talk about ILLEGAL immigrants - not immigrants.
Blue could have ignored this thread if she didn't like it or didn't want to participate in the discussion. Isn't that the way its supposed to work?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

The idea that it's only about illegal immigrants is a little disingenuous. If the only concern is about following the law, then where are all the threads against smoking pot, pirating music, breaking traffic laws, etc.?

There are other reasons that the immigrant/illegal immigrant debates are so hot. It's not about people breaking the law. It's about us versus them.

That and the job market. Oh, and the economy that supports illegals in a downturned time.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classic

Blue could have ignored this thread if she didn't like it or didn't want to participate in the discussion. Isn't that the way its supposed to work?

I don't know. I'm not reading you right this second.

[lookout123]

The idea that it's only about illegal immigrants is a little disingenuous. If the only concern is about following the law, then where are all the threads against smoking pot, pirating music, breaking traffic laws, etc.?

There are other reasons that the immigrant/illegal immigrant debates are so hot. It's not about people breaking the law. It's about us versus them.

I'm going to throw the BS flag on that one. There have been threads about drug legalization and they will pop up from time to time based on how important someone thinks it is. Music piracy isn't an in your face issue with a vocal group of people saying "it's ok to steal it if you can't afford it", so that isn't even in the same ballpark.

The reason illegal immigration keeps popping up is because it is something that affects every one of us. There is a large vocal group who want amnesty/open borders/whatever, and a slightly larger group that want laws enforced/improved/whatever. Those two sides each feel it is a crucial issue for the country so will battle. Not everything is about race or country of origin. If Monster was here illegally I'd ask her to get right the fuck out now. She's here legally so I want her to take full advantage of any and everything the US has to offer. I've stated my position on the issue in a few threads, but my point here is that it is an ongoing issue for reasons beyond race or the us v them mindset.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

The idea that it's only about illegal immigrants is a little disingenuous. If the only concern is about following the law, then where are all the threads against smoking pot, pirating music, breaking traffic laws, etc.?

There are other reasons that the immigrant/illegal immigrant debates are so hot. It's not about people breaking the law. It's about us versus them.

No, because we know that people that are caught, "smoking pot, pirating music, breaking traffic laws, etc." are punished, whereas these criminals are not.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by classicman

I hear people talk about ILLEGAL immigrants - not immigrants.

Originally Posted by classicman

Blue could have ignored this thread if she didn't like it or didn't want to participate in the discussion. Isn't that the way its supposed to work?

Let me try to provide an example to you, so that maybe you see my point of view and why I'm getting upset about all the stupid immigration talk.

Classic, how would you feel if you looked on the Cellar as sort of refuge of intelligence and camaraderie...yet as of late, threads were continually popping up about, say, the Great Abortion Debate.

And in these threads, some people--people that you normally like and respect--repeatedly insisted that what's inside a pregnant woman is NOT a baby at all, but in fact a fetus...and if a pregnant woman miscarries or aborts, it's the death of a fetus, NOT a baby.

After debating it as much or as little as you can stand, wouldn't it start to upset you--seeing a contentious topic that hits really close to home, come up over and over again in a place you love to visit? And being reminded over and over again of what people have said about it?

I just wished for a little break, that's all.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, because we know that people that are caught, "smoking pot, pirating music, breaking traffic laws, etc." are punished, whereas these criminals are not.

That's not true. People are deported every day. They aren't catching everyone, but they also aren't catching all music pirates or drug users.

Originally Posted by lookout123

Music piracy isn't an in your face issue with a vocal group of people saying "it's ok to steal it if you can't afford it", so that isn't even in the same ballpark.

It's true, it's not an in your face issue. And that's my point. Music piracy is against the law. We all know people who have done it, or we do it ourselves, and nobody cares. I certainly don't. But we can't watch all the piracy going on and shrug our shoulders, and at the same time claim that we are all about enforcing the law.

Originally Posted by lookout123

The reason illegal immigration keeps popping up is because it is something that affects every one of us. There is a large vocal group...

The immigration issue is dominating the press, so it's also dominating the conversation here. That much is certainly true and understandable. But the question is "why is it dominating the press?" and I think the answer is because we see the country changing and it scares us and makes us mad. It's changing to something different. Because these people are different.

[lookout123]

BS. I live on the freaking border down here. I don't hear people complaining because popular baby names are changing. I hear people complaining because people (not just mexicans) are able to enter the country illegally, work illegally, throw their kids in the schools illegally, get free healthcare illegally with little to no consequences if they are caught. All the while a large group of people use the same arguments based on $25 hamburgers or racism to discount the very valid complaints of those who see the negative side of illegal immigration.

I'm strongly pro immigration. I want it to be easier for larger numbers of potential immigrants.

I'm strongly anti illegal immigration. I want to know who is here. I want to know they aren't criminals. I want them to get the same protections and benefits as all legal residents and to follow the same rules.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I just wished for a little break, that's all.

Take as long a break as you wish - Thats your prerogative. Just don't read the thread. I don't understand why that is so difficult. To further the discussion by creating another thread about discussing that which you do not want to discuss makes even less sense.
Perhaps you should have created a thread about something else of interest to you and hopefully others who would then give you the "refuge of intelligence and camaraderie" that you are looking for.

[lookout123]

o further the discussion by creating another thread about discussing that which you do not want to discuss makes even less sense.

I think it's pretty funny actually.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Take as long a break as you wish - Thats your prerogative. Just don't read the thread. I don't understand why that is so difficult. To further the discussion by creating another thread about discussing that which you do not want to discuss makes even less sense.
Perhaps you should have created a thread about something else of interest to you and hopefully others who would then give you the "refuge of intelligence and camaraderie" that you are looking for.

YOU think that is bad! Read this!

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=19842

[Queen of the Ryche]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

YOU think that is bad! Read this!

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=19842

[Queen of the Ryche]

Originally Posted by lookout123

BS. I live on the freaking border down here. I don't hear people complaining because popular baby names are changing. I hear people complaining because people (not just mexicans) are able to enter the country illegally, work illegally, throw their kids in the schools illegally, get free healthcare illegally with little to no consequences if they are caught. All the while a large group of people use the same arguments based on $25 hamburgers or racism to discount the very valid complaints of those who see the negative side of illegal immigration.

I'm strongly pro immigration. I want it to be easier for larger numbers of potential immigrants.

I'm strongly anti illegal immigration. I want to know who is here. I want to know they aren't criminals. I want them to get the same protections and benefits as all legal residents and to follow the same rules.

I am in complete agreement. I pay taxes, I pay for my daughter's education, I paid to give birth to her (cash above and beyond what the insurance that I pay for didn't cover). Come on over, pay your fair share into the system, and feel free to receive the same benefits I do.

[HungLikeJesus]

Can we stop talking about talking about immigration?

[Shawnee123]

"Shut up shuttin' up."

--Yosemite Sam