Church & State....Lift & separate.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Nah, they're all covered with Santas, reindeer, cherubic choirs in red and white robes and Rudolf with a 300 watt nose. The real symbols of Christmas.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Small Town, USA has plenty of church lawns to put nativities on - probably more than Big City USA.

Yeah, but Christians already have religion in their churches. The whole point is to get it back into government, which they feel encourages depravity in the guise of freedom. Remember, as a Christian, one does have freedom! The freedom to choose to accept Jesus and be Saved, or reject him and be damned.

For some reason, the current Fundamentalist Christian mentality seems to believe that, for example, making homosexual marriage legal will somehow lead to more homosexuality. I don't get this whole line of reasoning, and in fact, I think it is probably a big smokescreen. Fundamentalist Christians just don't like other people doing what Fundamentalist Christians don't think they should be doing, so they'd like them to stop. After all, it is for their own good, right?

It kinda boils down to, "I'm right, the rest of you are wrong, so you need to do it my way". When we keep religion and government separated, everyone has equal access to government, and the right to practice their religion without intimidation, interference or imposition of other people's tenets upon our daily lives.

Why is that bad?

[Happy Monkey]

I think Bruce's thread title is perfect: Separating religion and government lifts both.

[Radar]

Sorry, but church should be COMPLETELY separated from state. All government should remain out of churches and all religion should remain out of government. It's NEVER ok to mix them. Not for a small town nativity scene, not to put God on money, etc. Doing these things respects an establishment of religion and is exclusionary to those of other religions or no religion and shows bias.

The exact phrase "separation of church and state" aren't in the Constitution, but neither is the phrase "Bill of Rights". The separation of church and state is no less a part of the Constitution than is the Bill of rights.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Government property = common property.
If the resident Christians want to put up a nativity, hey, knock yourself out.
The Jews say we want a menorah, OK, have at it.

How about a sign advertising Bob's Hardware or other local businesses?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

HM, you obviously don't live in small town, usa.

Mari, you stinkin' liberal.

Last Christmas I was living in the teensy town of Nucla, Colorado. The town hall put up a big bright star that could be seen for quite some distance away. The two local churches featured very gaudy and extravagant manger scenes on their front yards. I lived two houses down from one of the churches and the lights from their manger scene were so bright I hardly needed to turn on the lights in my living room in the evening. Everyone seemed happy with these decorations. I suppose in theory the town hall shouldn't have put up a star?

[wolf]

The City of Bethlehem, PA capitalizes on their obvious ties to Christianity as a tourist draw. They have the "big star on the mountain" and bill themselves as Christmas Town, USA. If they separate church and state there, they'll lose money.

(I admit to thoroughly enjoying the ChristKindlMarkt (where they sell the baby Jesus every year) and the obligatory side trip to the Moravian Book Store, even if it is goddamn impossible to park in that town)

[jinx]

Originally Posted by wolf

The City of Bethlehem, PA capitalizes on their obvious ties to Christianity as a tourist draw. They have the "big star on the mountain" and bill themselves as Christmas Town, USA. If they separate church and state there, they'll lose money.

I always loved that star. I just like stars though...

[wolf]

I've bought Moravian Stars in stained glass for quite a few of my friends. There's a big one that I've had my eye on for several years, but I don't have the window for it. They are popular enough that all the stained glass vendors have them and keep making them, so I'll end up with one eventually.

[Elspode]

A "friend of the coven" made us a five-foot diameter Yule Pentagram a couple of years back, which we hang during our coven Yule celebration. Then, we take it home and hang it up in front of the double windows on the the front of our house.

Come Spring, my neighbor and I were standing there talking, when he points to the thing, and asks me, "Is that a Christmas decoration or a Pentagram?"

I told him it was a Pentagram, and he was cool with that. After all, I've known the guy since I was 13 years old. He knows I'm no baby killer, so he figures, what the hey?

Too bad the rest of the world isn't that tolerant or accepting.

[xoxoxoBruce]

For some reason, the current Fundamentalist Christian mentality seems to believe that, for example, making homosexual marriage legal will somehow lead to more homosexuality. I don't get this whole line of reasoning, and in fact, I think it is probably a big smokescreen.

If homosexuality is legitimized, it makes it much harder to blackma...uh ...solicit donations to the pastor/priest that keeps quiet.

How about a sign advertising Bob's Hardware or other local businesses?

No piddley little hardware store, only BIG business, like God.

Nucla, Colorado.

Bush's pronunciation?

lights from their manger scene were so bright I hardly needed to turn on the lights in my living room in the evening.

Now that's just not right. Those bright lights upset the sheep and ruin the mood/ambiance.

the ChristKindlMarkt (where they sell the baby Jesus every year)

Oven ready?

A "friend of the coven" made us a five-foot diameter Yule Pentagram a couple of years back, which we hang during our coven Yule celebration. Then, we take it home and hang it up in front of the double windows on the the front of our house.

What is it with you Pagans leaving your yule decorations up all year. My goodness, there oughtta be a law.

So the general consensus is that the government should not accommodate the citizens decorating the town property for the Christmas Holidays with a nativity.
How about candy canes, colored lights and Santa Clause? You know, generic commercial trimmings?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Nucla, Colorado: Bush's pronunciation?

Good one, Bruce! And closer than you might have thought. Nucla is an old uranium mining town in the far western part of Colorado!

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So the general consensus is that the government should not accommodate the citizens decorating the town property for the Christmas Holidays with a nativity.
How about candy canes, colored lights and Santa Clause? You know, generic commercial trimmings?

Actually, even though I'm not a Christian, I couldn't care less if the city fathers want to put a phalanx of baby Jesus's on the court house lawn every December. It's all the same to me. The trouble is that such an act has the potential for putting us on that infamous slippery slope that has us careening into state sponsored religion. The Christian fundamentalists would walk away with one hell of a settlement from the insurance company while folks like pagans or Buddhists or Jews would end up behind bars for careless driving.

I think people who oppose a candy cane or Santa on the court house lawn are taking it too far, however. The last time I checked, a candy cane was not symbolic of any particular religion.

[wolf]

Yes, it is. It's a peppermint representation of a bishop's crook, a symbol of the catholic church.

(Food Channel, Christmas Unwrapped. Gotta love the Food Channel for this kind of thing)

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by marichiko

...phalanx of baby Jesus...

Yet *another* band name.

Originally Posted by wolf

Yes, it is. It's a peppermint representation of a bishop's crook, a symbol of the catholic church.

(Food Channel, Christmas Unwrapped. Gotta love the Food Channel for this kind of thing)

Jeez, just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water...