A Laundry List of the Latest Democratic Party Screwups

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Supported Contra insurgents in Nicaragua.
Helped overthrow elected prime minister of Iran in 1953-54.
Provided aid to Pinochet after his coup of elected Chilean government.

And none of these are examples of making us trouble.

The Contra insurgency was laudable, and nothing but: it was a rebellion against a stupid, blundering, incompetent Marxist regime -- just exactly the kind of thing free, adult humans should do. The only Americans discomfited by the Contras were those Americans incompetent enough at life, economics, and human thought in general to be themselves Marxists. I include all the members of Congress who voted against Contra aid among the roll of the dummies. John Kerry opposed Contra aid -- which means the man voted in the interests of Marxist dictators.

I never vote for traitor sons of bitches like that.

I've met a determined Marxist or two (along with one ivory-tower pacifist who liked Marx's earlier ideas, but Marx loses her on his later stuff), but I can't call them bright or wise.

The people who attack America and Americans come from non-democracies, Rich. Do you get it now? That was my point -- not the things you mentioned.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

And none of these are examples of making us trouble.

The Contra insurgency was laudable, and nothing but: it was a rebellion against a stupid, blundering, incompetent Marxist regime -- just exactly the kind of thing free, adult humans should do. The only Americans discomfited by the Contras were those Americans incompetent enough at life, economics, and human thought in general to be themselves Marxists. I include all the members of Congress who voted against Contra aid among the roll of the dummies. John Kerry opposed Contra aid -- which means the man voted in the interests of Marxist dictators.

I never vote for traitor sons of bitches like that.

I've met a determined Marxist or two (along with one ivory-tower pacifist who liked Marx's earlier ideas, but Marx loses her on his later stuff), but I can't call them bright or wise.

The people who attack America and Americans come from non-democracies, Rich. Do you get it now? That was my point -- not the things you mentioned.

So our regime can support terrorism in another country, even a democratically elected one, as long as it's Marxist. Which, if they adopted a predemption scheme similar to President Bush's, would mean that you would be fine with them retaliating against us.

That's not patriotic, that's just stupid.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's ok Rich. If the US goes out and fucks with another country, the people in that country might hold a grudge against us, but nobody in others countries would take notice of what we're doing.......would they?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by richlevy

So our regime can support terrorism in another country, even a democratically elected one, as long as it's Marxist. Which, if they adopted a predemption scheme similar to President Bush's, would mean that you would be fine with them retaliating against us.

That's not patriotic, that's just stupid.

Regime, quotha! Look, it is evidence that I understand both humanity and this world better than you do that I voted for George, twice. You've never been able to give me any reason to regret it, because ol' George keeps doing things I want done, and avoiding doing the things I don't. This kind of leaves you out in the cold, but I'd say you deserve some time in the outer darkness. Wail and gnash all you like -- you need to be pushed aside, after all the weakness and error of those who think like you.

Your resolute incomprehension that the freer way is the best way is noted and deplored, at least by those of us who really like human liberty, such as myself. An overthrowing of an oppressive regime by a democracy is right and good by definition, Rich. Truly free adult humans have no cause to object. Slavemakers, slavemongers, fascists, communists, socialists, and other objectionables might object, but in the objecting, they demonstrate their utter inferiority and their undue desire to abuse their fellow man. I wouldn't wallow in your slough, Rich.

And no, not being misled by the argument of "moral equivalence," which has visibly suckered you, I would not be "okay" with a "predemption" (I don't think that's a word, perhaps you meant preemption) from the fascist Marxists -- for fascism and Marxism have no real difference: they are about unfreedom and nondemocracy. The slavemakers must be wiped out by the freedom people for the world to be clean. I'd enjoy a clean world. You?

I've been around enough of the world to see what nondemocracies wreak, and it is nasty. We free people must smash them, and all who don't help with the smashing must hold their manhood small, and their heads lowered in the company of their heroic betters. It's better to make freedom, Rich, and hang all who would circumscribe it.

Patriot? Not you, not visibly. Carper, yes. Naysayer, indeed. I'd go on, but it would be merely repetitive. Suffice it to say you're not earning respect here.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I'll only mention Rev. Lowery's no-class speech at Coretta Scott King's funeral to insert it into this record. She had a lot more class than he did; his speech recalled the near-Iranian idiocy* of the Paul Wellstone Funeral-cum-Rally.

And this is a gray-haired old man's idea of something appropriate to say -- at a funeral?! He's old enough to know better! Democrats keep proving they are stupid. Don't vote for them. We need a Republic, and the Dems can't provide one.

*Ayatollah Khoumeini's funeral in Iran. It was so uncontained that the mourners broke the coffin and Khoumeini's body nearly fell out into the crowd.

[slang]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Why I never vote for Democrats....

I voted for a Democrat once.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Regime, quotha! Look, it is evidence that I understand both humanity and this world better than you do that I voted for George, twice. You've never been able to give me any reason to regret it, because ol' George keeps doing things I want done, and avoiding doing the things I don't. This kind of leaves you out in the cold, but I'd say you deserve some time in the outer darkness. Wail and gnash all you like -- you need to be pushed aside, after all the weakness and error of those who think like you.

(snip)

And no, not being misled by the argument of "moral equivalence," which has visibly suckered you, I would not be "okay" with a "predemption" (I don't think that's a word, perhaps you meant preemption) from the fascist Marxists -- for fascism and Marxism have no real difference: they are about unfreedom and nondemocracy. The slavemakers must be wiped out by the freedom people for the world to be clean. I'd enjoy a clean world. You?

I've been around enough of the world to see what nondemocracies wreak, and it is nasty. We free people must smash them, and all who don't help with the smashing must hold their manhood small, and their heads lowered in the company of their heroic betters. It's better to make freedom, Rich, and hang all who would circumscribe it.

Patriot? Not you, not visibly. Carper, yes. Naysayer, indeed. I'd go on, but it would be merely repetitive. Suffice it to say you're not earning respect here.

Whose respect, yours, the residents of the Cellar's, or everyone's? I just what to be sure of the limits of your self delusion.

As far as can see, the only mistake you found in my post was 'predemption'. I appreciate your skill in spotting my typographical error and I will recommend you as a spell checker, if not as much use as a fact checker.

I would much rather hold my government to high standards than to excuse it's failings, for to do so would be a derelection of my duty as a citizen. I am more comfortable judging actions from the standpoint of 'moral equivalency' than falling victim to the trap of 'moral superiority'. You on the other hand, seem willing to shirk your responsibility in this area and still stake claim to a 'moral superiority' that makes no demands upon the conscience and decency of our republic. A man who believes in 'moral equivalency' sees a crime when a gunfight between two drug dealers kills a nine-year-old child. A man who believes in 'moral superiority' forgives the crime if the killer was not the one firing the first shot.

A true lover of freedom will defend the rights of any people to elect their own leaders, free from the influence of foreign nations, even if the foreign nation is ours. You seem to feel that we have some manifest destiny to force our choices upon others. I believe in the destruction of tyrants. You seem to be willing to make an exception if the tyrant is us or those of our choosing. I will defend my freedom, that of my family, my nation, and those of any people who wish to freely elect their leaders, against their enemies, even those who consider themselves "their heroic betters".

I understand the difficulty that a person with a dichromatic worldview can have when subjected to the terrible reality that the 'good guys' can do bad things. I appreciate your need to twice vote for our president in the same way I apprecieate the necessity for the wolf in a pack to sniff the butt of it's pack leader for reassurance in times of stress. It's very heartwarming in a Nature Channel kind of way, and in an anthropomorphic manner can even seem like the choice an intelligent human might make.

It might even make our military more effective to have men like you on board again, who are not troubled by attacks of conscience and whose blind obedience to stated principle with no attempt at verifying the truth of the situation would actually work in a war built on 'faulty intelligence'. Unfortunately, the new weapons we use require a certain level of intelligence, and finding people smart enough to operate them and dumb enough to maintain you narrow view of 'freedom' is an impossible task. It really is a shame, because allowing the real citizen soldiers to come home and guys like you to operate in a brutal war zone would certainly be an effective way of matching skills. Scorpions and snakes belong in brutal wastelands, and guys like you belong in places where conscience is a liability.

As for 'not earning respect', I have to consider the source. Not having your respect to me is like being on Adolf Hitler's shit list. On the one hand, I would consider it a place of honor. And in any case, I would have to consider what cancer of the soul I would have to acquire to 'earn' such 'respect'.

It's better to make freedom, Rich, and hang all who would circumscribe it.

When you finally realize the absurdity of this statement when mixed with all of the others you have made, please call the suicide hotline before you reach for a rope and a chair.

We free people must smash them, and all who don't help with the smashing must hold their manhood small, and their heads lowered in the company of their heroic betters.

And yet you still advocate the crushing of freely elected governments when their politics do not match yours. Such actions are more suited to the Knights Templar or Waffen SS, two groups that considered themselves 'heroic betters'.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I've been around enough of the world to see what nondemocracies wreak, and it is nasty. We free people must smash them,

And pay how much, to replace them with what? It doesn't appear to be working.

Afghan Man Faces Execution After Converting to Christianity

An Afghan man who recently admitted he converted to Christianity faces the death penalty under the country's strict Islamic legal system. The trial is a critical test of Afghanistan's new constitution and democratic government.

The case is attracting widespread attention in Afghanistan, where local media are closely monitoring the landmark proceedings. Abdul Rahman, 40, was arrested last month, accused of converting to Christianity. Under Afghanistan's new constitution, minority religious rights are protected but Muslims are still subject to strict Islamic laws.

And so, officially, Muslim-born Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and not for practicing Christianity.
...
This is the first case in which the defendant has admitted to converting and is refusing to back down, even while facing the death penalty. If convicted, the case could ultimately force President Hamid Karzai's direct intervention.

The president would have to sign the papers authorizing Rahman's execution, a move that could jeopardize Mr. Karzai's standing with human rights groups and Western governments.

So far, President Karzai has not commented on the case. But political analysts here in Kabul say he will be under significant pressure from the country's hard-line religious groups to make an example of Rahman.

[wolf]

Islam does not understand Martyrdom, I take it.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

And pay how much, to replace them with what? It doesn't appear to be working.

I think UG has a military junta in mind with him at the head to lead the civilian weenies into democracy. I think his presidential palace will be named Valhalla or "Hall of Heroes".

[tw]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

It's better to make freedom, Rich, and hang all who would circumscribe it.

Well that pretty much describes Urbane Guerilla's politics. He just endorsed Castro's Cuba, the American puppet government in S Vietnam, Poppa Doc and Baby Doc in Haiti, the military junta in Argentina, Pinochet in Chile, the various uprisings in Central America in mythical promotions of a democracy that simply massacred many innocent people, Charles Taylor in Central Africa, and ... UG loves dictatorships that pretend to be governments of the people - and then arbitrarily massacre the opposition. Scary is what Urbane Guerilla defines as a democracy. No wonder he must remind us in previous posts that he is intelligent. We might forget.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

It's morally suspect to pick on crazy people, so I'll try and avoid it -- but tw's views just don't coincide with the world I know.

He just endorsed Castro's Cuba,

Wanting the Castros hanged for their sins isn't an endorsement of the Castros, not in my book. Castro's Cuba sucks because of Castro's enslavement of it. Cuba may have been a freer place under Fulgencio Bautista! The place could be so nice with a genuine representative democracy governing it. As is well known, a "People's Republic" is an oligarchy and not truly of the "People." Truth in advertising has never been a leftist or communist strong point.

the American puppet government in S Vietnam,

Let's see, and the genocidal abuse of the South by Hanoi was an improvement over Diem's or Thieu's government exactly how? Two million assorted Vietnamese fleeing south of the 17th Parallel to get away from Ho Chi Minh suggests plenty of Vietnamese understood the situation better than you did. Your leftist-blinkered viewpoint, evidenced by your use of leftist tropes, is showing, tw, and it never shows to your advantage, you silly 'bot. This is why I know more about history than you do: you didn't learn it right, and show no interest in cleaning up your act. That means you can only be one thing, tw: a target for smart people to shoot full of holes. Enjoy a happy career as a colander. Leftists are pretty stupid.

Poppa Doc and Baby Doc in Haiti,

"Papa Doc" is usually spelled that way, doubtless from the Creole -- I pay attention to this sort of thing, and you do not. The saddest thing about Haiti is that the place peaked in 1802 and has been in decay since. If there is anyone native to Haiti who can actually govern well enough to bring prosperity to a nation that might be an agricultural powerhouse, I've no idea who they are. They spent the bulk of the nineteenth and a bit of the twentieth centuries shuffling presidents in and out: there would be a short period in which a president and his various cronies would loot the treasury, then be kicked out for looting the treasury by armed coup, which would then install another president who would loot for a while and then step two would be repeated, ad infinitum. (Read America's Small Wars for a nutshell of this.)

I can't see how I can honestly be read to support the Duvaliers, father or son. What were they but corrupt pols in the Haitian mold? Why am I construed to endorse such idiots?

the military junta in Argentina,

Not a democracy, not endorsed. Again, though, tw's leftist/communist bent is naked to view: the junta and Pinochet were the ever-evoked boogeymen in communist palaver, and tw has internalized it all, and will exhibit these under but slight pressure.

Who mourned the Marxist boob, Allende?

the various uprisings in Central America in mythical promotions of a democracy that simply massacred many innocent people,

By which I suppose he means the Contras. Unfortunately for this perennial Lie of the Left, the Ortega government he champions as the best thing for all Central America since pan blanco rebanado enriquecido was not merely collectivist, but promoted incompetents into office if their commie ideology was strong enough. That wasn't enough to keep the lights on in Managua, and this would have been the same without a blockade as with. No wonder the people revolted and eventually achieved the Chamorrista government, which was a government not cluttered up with Marxism. Tw's insuperable problem is that he believes leftist dictatorships are supposed to be a protected species. How about human beings, tw? Ever think of them? Not that I see, not when the pravda of soviet-style government stuffs your frontal lobes and clamors in your ears and blurs your sight. You lose track of the millions the commies kill, including the commies they kill. That's at least forty million dead folks you're ignoring, fella...

Charles Taylor

I don't know enough about Charles Taylor to beat you over the head with him, so I'm not going to say much; I hear he's a right jerk. Does one have to be friendly with the United States to become a jerk? Doesn't add up to me. (Who's the guy who just stole the Belarus election? Pretty anti-American, I hear.)

UG loves dictatorships that pretend to be governments of the people - and then arbitrarily massacre the opposition.

Now here is a spectacularly wrongheaded opinion: my hatred of such regimes is not only visible, it is the central reason I post -- yet to this madman tw, this is evidence of a love. I despise these regimes precisely because of their massacres: the Soviets' Gulag (Gosudarstvennie Upravlyaemye Lagery),and Terror Famine in Ukraine, the Communist Chinese Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, and Tienanmen Square -- all while pretending at democracy's forms and avoiding any of its substance. The total slaughter just from these two leftist giants goes at least forty million persons (and you can bet these were mainly innocents), probably twice that, and perhaps as many as one hundred million. I'm excluding the casualties incurred in the Second World War, which would close to double the above.

There are more moral means of population control!

Scary is what Urbane Guerilla defines as a democracy.

Let me see if I have this straight: you, tw, are afraid of the United States of America? Well, that could suit a leftist non-democrat, all right; the USA has been the biggest, strongest, richest and best opponent of the Marxists/collectivists/socialists for many decades. Tw, this still says you are scum, and nutso too. Your posts reveal you are no sort of democrat.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

It's better to make freedom, Rich, and hang all who would circumscribe it.

And he follows it with a long post of hate, anger, assaults, and death.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Wanting the Castros hanged for their sins ...
Let's see, and the genocidal abuse of the South by Hanoi was an improvement over Diem's or Thieu's government exactly how?

Curious how Urbane Guerilla forgets why America subverted Vietnam elections and other facts (he forgot to read) in the Pentagon Papers.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Who mourned the Marxist boob, Allende?

Chileans who voted Allende into office and still morn what happened to him. Did your anger cause you to forget that fact?

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I don't know enough about Charles Taylor to beat you over the head with him, so I'm not going to say much; I hear he's a right jerk. Does one have to be friendly with the United States to become a jerk?

No. But Taylor does as you advocate: "hang all ..."

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

... my hatred of such regimes is not only visible, it is the central reason I post -- ... I despise these regimes precisely because of their massacres:

And then you invent massacres in Cuba and N Vietnam. And then you forget American massacres in Vietnam, Cambodian killing fields created by an American invasion that a president said did not happen, or those 98,000 civilians killed due to a 'Mission Accomplished' war. Funny how you forget relevant facts while posting hate.

Urbane Guerilla - there is one thing in America I fear: the brainwashed who never learned history - why did Vietnam request to be a protectorate of the US (that UG ignored when he rewrote history)? Those with 'big dic' mentalities who somehow know military violence solves everything. And those with so little intelligence that they must brag about their intelligence in The Cellar.

UG makes good cannon fodder. All nations need cannon fodder periodically. One reason is for war. Another is to demonstrate how dangerous those without education can be as leaders. Unfortunately, UG, your philosophy is just too consistent with what is written in Mein Kompf. Cast blame on the merchants, intelligencia, and Jews. Who do you blame for everything, UG?

UG post justified by personal attacks again demonstrates a philosophy based in hate, violence, and hanging. UG calls that democracy. He would even praise Pinochet. Convenient that he forgets massacres created when Allende was killed by someone with UG's perspectives. Damning examples of UG philosophy are demonstrated by history. This post for new lurkers who don't yet know what Urbane Guerilla represents: hate that is so common found in fringe extremism and masked in a cloak he calls democracy. So surprisingly similar to what Pol Pot advocated. So similar to what justified massacres in Rwanda and Bruendi. Somehow UG calls that democracy.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Madness and BS, quite unworthy of reply.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Madness and BS, quite unworthy of reply.

And yet you still keep on writing them.