Okay, but no. What kind of car should *I* buy?

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by tw

Very little relationship exists between a warranty and quality. As I learned some 40 years ago when running a GM parts department.

This 40 year old information, like much of what you state as fact, is no longer valid. In 40 years, we have witnessed the advent of the fax machine, the microwave, the personal computer, the Internet, cell phones, etc, etc....

Why else would companies rate certain cars as more expensive to cover? Nissan even divides it's own vehicles into classes.
Class 1: Versa, Sentra, Cube, Altima, Juke, 2wd rogue, and 2wd frontier.
2: Maxima, Murano, Pathfinder, Quest, and 4x4 rogues and frontiers.
Class 3: Armada, Titan.
Class 4: Gt-R.
Class 5: NV, nvp, nv200.

Of course, that meant we did everything possible to deny or not honor a GM warranty.

GM restarted that program some years ago. Mechanics told me about one Cadillac with numerous warranty problems (before they even sold it). The GM rep arrived. Measured tire pressures. Found two tires that were more than 2 PSI from the recommended tire pressure. Then used that as the excuse to deny reinbursement for warranty repairs.

I have witnessed Nissan extending large scale factory coverage for free twice since I've worked with them. The 04 Quest owners were all GIVEN two additional years of bumper to bumper coverage for free. The people that had bought security plus service contracts were mailed checks to pay them back and keep it fair. This was because those vans were really poor quality. Quite the opposite of what you claim about GM.

The other was a retroactive upgrade for all 2008-2010 cars with a CVT tranny to a 10yr- 120k term. Doubling the standard warranty. And not just for the original owner. This time because the cost of repair or rebuild was prohibitive.

http://www.nissanassist.com/faqs.php?menu=3

I know you have some resentment toward GM, but I highly doubt there is a 'program' in place to systematically deny warranty claims. Dealers sometimes try to get customers to pay for covered items.... And then go ahead and file that warranty claim as well (double dipping, stealing) but most reputable places won't do that. I'm frequently involved in connecting service with the claims people for the things I sell. My Rep reviews our claims ratio and adjusts our premiums periodically for things like tire coverage and key insurance...

Yes, I said key insurance. The fvcking keys are $300 a throw nowadays, so people want insurance... like what you buy with your cell phone.

Best warranties are often an indication of a least reliable product. And not just for cars.

I find the better warranties are found on cars with image issues.

Honda, Toyota, Nissan. The big 3. All three the same. You get 3yr/36,000 b-b, and 5yr/60k power train. No roadside assistance unless you get the service contract.

Because they sell even without anything better. I think that if any of them changes, the other two will follow suit.

Who has longer warranties? High line cars... And trust me, you're paying for it... As well as that free maintenance plan, BMW and Volvo people...
And the Makes that have had safety issues SUZUKI, reliability problems,.. Mitsu, and hyundai, Kia.... Because they have to in order to sell cars.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

Dealers sometimes try to get customers to pay for covered items.... And then go ahead and file that warranty claim as well (double dipping, stealing) but most reputable places won't do that.

There was a scandal here last year, where the school district found out that the company servicing their school bus fleet had been doing this exact thing on all the buses for several years. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in maintenance fees that were actually covered by warranty. They're still in the process of suing.

[Big Sarge]

Buy a good pre-computer car. My newest vehicle is my 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4. It's like a mini jeep. Parts are cheap and they are so simple to work on. Same goes for the Suzuki Samurai

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Buy a good pre-computer car. My newest vehicle is my 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4.

Psst. That's got a computer, a couple of them.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

This 40 year old information, like much of what you state as fact, is no longer valid.

But again, you are only saying what I have said for years - if not decades. The biggest warranties are often hype on the most inferior products.

The Cadillac warranty was denied in 2008. Numerous defects in a new car were dumped on a dealer because two tires had tire slightly low tire pressure. The program in 2008 was similar to one DeLorean described in the 1970s. GM crap products rightly deserved criticism. Their bankruptcy was due to shit products even decades earlier with names such as Hummer, Oldsmobile, and (some of the worst) Pontiac.

Dealers denying warranties have been observed over many decades. For example, a Geo (in the early days of Geo) dropped its transmission in pieces when the car was one year old to the day. A trail of parts beind the car. Dealer charged her for all work and parts. DeLorean said why. GM had been doing this 'dump warranty costs on dealers' for decades. Part of a larger program of playing spread sheet games.

A friend was told an air conditioner compressor on his two year old Cavalier failed because he used it in the winter. Bull. These tactics (lies) are routine on the most inferior products.

Companies with superior reliability do not hype big warranties. Will often honor warranties that are not advertised or widely known. Generally, the concept from responsible companies is, "That should not happen so we will pay." For example, my first Honda Accord at 12 years old had a rusted support bar. This part supported the engine, steering, and front wheels. At 12 years and with well over 100,000 miles, the dealer said, "That should not happen. Honda will replace it for free." Labor took four hours. The part probably cost $400. Wheels, steering gear, and engine had to be disconnected. I never paid a penny.

Due to superior quality and reliability, car companies run by 'car guys' have real world warranties; automaker reinburses the dealer. The concepts demonstrates even back in the 70s when Mazda paid for the rebuilding of every RX-2 and RX-3 rotary engine. Better quality products (not hyping big buck warranties) extend warranties when the product defect should not have happened. Good luck getting GM or Chrysler to have done that.

Best warranties exist with little fanfare. Products that imply mythical quality by hyping big warranties (ie GM, Chrysler) are often some of the worst products. Reliable products have warranties that remain unknown until a rare failure exists.

Big buck warranties are often found on other inferior products. Good luck getting a plug-in surge protector $25,000 warranty honored ... when those devices do not claim to protect from destructive surges. It even has a history of creating house fires. Another perfect example of a 'best' warranty identifying an inferior product.

[Glinda]

If you want a reliable vehicle that handles great in crappy weather, get yourself an older Silverado. My '99 is a ROCK STAR. 215,000 miles and still going very strong. A good friend has the exact same year/make/model with 400,000 on it. Yeah, it only gets 15 mpg, but it's a trade-off I can live with.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Still zooms over tw's head.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

...If I look at it from the actuarial view point... Meaning, in my Nissan warranty book for Non-Nissan vehicles , .... which cars are the cheapest to put warrantees on.... Class 1 being cheapest, up to class 9....

(if I recall correctly, which after 3 beers I may not).....Subaru impreza and legacy are class 1, as is Honda civic, and fit. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, Subaru forrester, Hyundai elantra, I think maybe Ford fusion, surprisingly enough, are class 2. Camry is class 3, as are most make's
entry level cars, like cobalt, caliber, sonata, optima....

Mazda 3 starts at class 4 and they go up from there... Which is troubling because they give you a 5-60 bumper to bumper. Vw are all class 6 and above... Jeep liberty is a 5, all others 6. BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar Audi, Cadillac etc. populate the higher tiers. Lexus are mainly 3-4 which is a coup because high line cars carry high line labor rates....

Nothing to do with manufacturers fixing their shit. No reputation protecting, no goodwill, no customer relations. It's selling warrantees on other people's cars. Strictly business, based on vehicle/model history, based on costs, actual spreadsheet numbers.

[lumberjim]

And I thought that would blow tw's skirt up, too. Here I am offering objective numbers.... Which is what he constantly harps on... Demands even... And he ignores it and goes all anecdotal on me... I think he might have actually agreed with my point about companies offering longer or more involved warranties in order to compensate for some other short coming.

Oh... I was way off about subaru, btw. They are all rated 4-5-6 by Nissan. I must have been thinking of the other company we use, EFG.

If I think of it Monday, and have time, I'll put both companies' rating tables up for reference.

[glatt]

I'd be very curious to see that information.

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Psst. That's got a computer, a couple of them.

most of the ones I see were converted to carb like the 1.3 suzuki

[lumberjim]

I guess there's no proprietary info here... no big secrets... but I don't think I'll say which company this is from... just in case I'm missing something.

so that is one of the class guides... and probably the more accurate depiction of the rick levels for each car. the other company lumps whole makes under on rating in many cases.

[slang]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Same goes for the Suzuki Samurai

These are running around all over here in Baguio. They seem like exactly the right size for the roads here and have a 4x4 option that makes them good on the hills.

With gas running around $5 a gallon, the smaller engine seems like a good feature too.

And look at this, they're still in production today. $18,777

[glatt]

Thanks for posting that Jim. It's interesting.

So the higher the number, the higher the cost for a warranty?

What is this warranty? This is some sort of optional extra repair coverage you can buy? So if my coolant temperature sensor gets covered with crud and starts malfunctioning, causing the engine to stall, I can get it replaced for free?

[lumberjim]

Depending on the coverage level you choose, and which deductible.... Yes. What's even better is that it will only add $27 to your agreed upon payment.

[glatt]

And this is offered only for new cars? Or is there some version for used cars, that is priced appropriately and with enough sneaky exemptions that they still make a profit?