Any comments about Mr Madoff? - Page 8

tw · 03-01-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And everyone should get taxed the same regardless of how much or little you make.

Which means tax rates on the rich would have to increase.

Happy Monkey · 03-01-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

That's my point. It really doesn't need to be raised, though it does make some sense to keep it in line with life expectancy. Life expectancy for those reaching 65 increased 2-5 years between 1940 and 1990. and the retirement age is going up 2 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

And it's been raised since 1940, no? Wasn't it raised just a few years ago? Or in the past 15 years or so? (My memory is faulty on this...)

That's what I meant.

classicman · 03-01-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Which means tax rates on the rich would have to increase.

Why? If the rate is currently 36% & going up to 39% how is a flat tax of 15% an increase?

Clodfobble · 03-01-2009, 10:13 PM

I think he's saying that with all the loopholes and accounting tricks, the rich don't actually end up paying 36-39%, they pay a much lower percentage when all is said and done.

classicman · 03-01-2009, 10:33 PM

I thought so as well, but you never know with him and god forbid I make an assumption...

tw · 03-02-2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Why? If the rate is currently 36% going up to 39% how is a flat tax of 15% an increase?

You can't be that naive. With tax breaks and other money games, the rich are paying a lower percentage. Again, as Warren Buffet so often notes bluntly, he is paying less taxes than his receptionist. The rich have low taxes. Americans have some of the lowest tax rates in the world. That reality is not popular where right wing extremists hype myths. But the reality - if the rich are paying tax rates that high, then they must be ignorant or have really bad financial planners. Estimates put the average 'rich man' tax rates at somewhere between 20% and 23%.

Even more stunning is a study performed for the Senate by the GAO at the request of Sen Leven. At least 50% of American corporations pay no taxes. Again this is not popular among those who also knew Saddam had WMDs. These 'oppressive taxes' do not exist once a political agenda is replaced by facts. Classicman plays dumb about a 36% tax rate. He's not that stupid.

TheMercenary · 03-02-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I think he's saying that with all the loopholes and accounting tricks, the rich don't actually end up paying 36-39%, they pay a much lower percentage when all is said and done.

That is a true statement. It is called taxable basis. If you elimintate all the loop holes for everyone and no one gets a break from paying taxes, and everyone pays the same, in the end you will collect more.

classicman · 03-02-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Which means tax rates on the rich would have to increase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Why? If the rate is currently 36% & going up to 39% how is a flat tax of 15% an increase?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Estimates put the average 'rich man' tax rates at somewhere between 20% and 23%.
These 'oppressive taxes' do not exist once a political agenda is replaced by facts. Classicman plays dumb about a 36% tax rate. He's not that stupid.

OK, So according to YOU, the average "average 'rich man' tax rates average out at at somewhere between 20% and 23%. I'm not a mathematician, but thats still more than 15% last I checked.

No, I'm not stupid at all, in fact I am smart enough not to make assumptions about what you mean when your post is so vague. Lets try to stay on topic though - mmmkay?

tw · 03-02-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

OK, So according to YOU, the average "average 'rich man' tax rates average out at at somewhere between 20% and 23%. I'm not a mathematician, but thats still more than 15% last I checked.

Your numbers were 36%. Now you are posting 15%? What is the group only paying 15%? Get you head on straight. What are your numbers? Forcing you to do something you rarely do - commit to something - provide facts.

Trilby · 03-02-2009, 02:50 PM

I would like to know WHO Bernie paid off to STILL be living in his penthouse and not jail, which is where he belongs; eating empty-calorie carbs and pooping in front of an audience.

sugarpop · 03-02-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And everyone should get taxed the same regardless of how much or little you make. When the minority of income earners pay income taxes there is a huge problem.

HUH? WTF are you talking about?

sugarpop · 03-02-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

That's what I meant.

Oh OK.

sugarpop · 03-02-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

You can't be that naive. With tax breaks and other money games, the rich are paying a lower percentage. Again, as Warren Buffet so often notes bluntly, he is paying less taxes than his receptionist. The rich have low taxes. Americans have some of the lowest tax rates in the world. That reality is not popular where right wing extremists hype myths. But the reality - if the rich are paying tax rates that high, then they must be ignorant or have really bad financial planners. Estimates put the average 'rich man' tax rates at somewhere between 20% and 23%.

Even more stunning is a study performed for the Senate by the GAO at the request of Sen Leven. At least 50% of American corporations pay no taxes. Again this is not popular among those who also knew Saddam had WMDs. These 'oppressive taxes' do not exist once a political agenda is replaced by facts. Classicman plays dumb about a 36% tax rate. He's not that stupid.

Dammit, I wish I could remember where I heard this. Apparently there is a really rich guy in NY (like, multi-multi-multi-millionaire) who hasn't paid any taxes, in YEARS. He actually brags about it. Does the IRS go after him? NOOOOO. Sorry I can't remember who he is or where I heard that.

True story, back in the 80s, my sister lived in NY. My parents and I went to visit her. We were out on the street, and this guy was asking for spare change. My mom started to give him some money when a cop stopped her. He told us the man begging was filthy rich, and that he did that on the side and raked in the bucks doing it.

tw · 03-03-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

I would like to know WHO Bernie paid off.

His lawyer. He could afford a good one.

TheMercenary · 03-03-2009, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

HUH? WTF are you talking about?

What do you mean? You don't believe that a minority of income earners pay the majority of income taxes?

03-01-2009, 10:13 PM	#109
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I think he's saying that with all the loopholes and accounting tricks, the rich don't actually end up paying 36-39%, they pay a much lower percentage when all is said and done. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

03-01-2009, 10:33 PM	#110
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I thought so as well, but you never know with him and god forbid I make an assumption... __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-02-2009, 02:50 PM	#115
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	I would like to know WHO Bernie paid off to STILL be living in his penthouse and not jail, which is where he belongs; eating empty-calorie carbs and pooping in front of an audience. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

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