How's this for irony.

jaguar · 04-22-2004, 12:01 PM

Looking for anyone that's got any experience with an H&K Mark23? In comparison to the USP? I know there's a fair few gun nuts here so someone must have some experience.
Not sure where to post it so I stuck it in here.

Kitsune · 04-22-2004, 12:18 PM

I own a H&K .45 USP and can tell you what I don't like about it, most of it being limited to its size when you carry, the amount of recoil, and the trigger pull required for double-action.

What I do like about it: it has a safety that I really like, the grip feels good (especially in relation to the slide release, etc), and the gun seems to have the ability to take quite a beating.

I know the Mark 23 is a hell of a lot more expensive, which is why I put it much further down on my list when I was looking.

Note on these: never load them with cheap, waterproofed ammunition.

jaguar · 04-22-2004, 12:30 PM

Full size USP I assume from the size comment? (compact is pretty damn compact).

04-22-2004, 01:06 PM

Hey, Jag, I thought the Swiss government just issued you (and every other Swiss male of military age) a weapon. What are you going to do? Start an insurgency over there?

jaguar · 04-22-2004, 01:41 PM

I assume they would if I had done military service but that hasn't happened yet (and won't if all goes to plan). This is...a different matter.

Kitsune · 04-22-2004, 03:01 PM

Full size USP I assume from the size comment?

Ah -- sorry, no, this would be the compact. The USP compact is small, but not when you live in a warm climate and you have to figure out how to conceal carry. You can, but it isn't comfortable with a holster when sitting down. A lot of the issues I noted (recoil, etc) are specific to the compact and probably not to the full-size.

...and why is this ironic?

jaguar · 04-22-2004, 03:06 PM

I've had many previous arguments that those with longer memories (1 Year+) here will know well in favour of gun control.

I was wondering on the recoil, I heard the full size USP is quite easy to handle.

Kitsune · 04-22-2004, 03:23 PM

I was wondering on the recoil, I heard the full size USP is quite easy to handle.

I would imagine it is a bit better than the compact as far as muzzle rise, etc. My biggest complaint about it is that the double-action (first shot, non-cocked) requires a pretty heavy trigger pull. It's enough that during the squeeze you'll move off target if you aren't careful.

Why did I purchase it, then? It was the only gun with a real safety that was in the affordable range. I'm very pleased with it, regardless, but I'm never as accurate with it as I am the 9mm Ruger. I don't get to practice with it as much, either, because of the cost of the ammunition. HKs are well known for their ruggedness, but they will not eat the cheap stuff as I stated above. I once went through all my ammunition at a range and decided to purchase some from the desk. They handed me a box of "Wolf .45 ACP" (cheapy stuff, out of Russia, manufactured by children, etc), which turned out to be a huge mistake. This stuff was so thoroughly gunked over with waterproofing that it rubbed off and built up inside the chamber. The result was that on the 20th or so round, the gunk caused the casing to jam hard into the chamber. The slide still had a millimeter to travel before being fully closed and it couldn't be pulled back because of the extractor holding onto the round. I suppose this might not be a problem limited to this specific model of firearm, mind you.

I was horrified when I saw the rangemaster attempt to use his "special technique" to fix it, which involved using a rubber mallet to try to drive the slide home. I haven't been back to that range since.

Fixing it required that I carefully transport the pistol home where I was able to rock the extractor out of place, remove the slide, and pop the offending round out with a screwdriver. Placing a call to H&K about it yielded laughter when I told them the manufacturer of the ammo, followed by a firm scolding that went something like, "...you bought a precision firearm and loaded it with WHAT? Sir, are you really certain you are in the correct mind to own a firearm?" Grr.

Kitsune · 04-22-2004, 03:26 PM

Hmm. Now that I think about it, why are you specifically looking at H&Ks and specifically the Mark 23 and USP? Just curious...

Undertoad · 04-22-2004, 03:48 PM

Jag loves to be coy with us. He thinks it makes him look cooler!

lumberjim · 04-22-2004, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
I assume they would if I had done military service but that hasn't happened yet (and won't if all goes to plan).

i knew you were part french

Kitsune · 04-22-2004, 08:21 PM

Jag loves to be coy with us. He thinks it makes him look cooler!

Really? Wow, what a jackass.

zippyt · 04-22-2004, 09:05 PM

I don't know if you are fucking with us or not ,
I have NO experence with a HK M23 , but it is a full sized .45 cal , threaded barrel extention for a silencer , fittings for lights and or lazers , verry cool in my humble opinion , and i would LOVE to have one !!!!!

elSicomoro · 04-22-2004, 09:06 PM

This is a set up...Jag is trying to coax Maggie on here only to pounce on her as soon as she posts...

Kitsune · 04-22-2004, 09:23 PM

This is a set up...Jag is trying to coax Maggie on here only to pounce on her as soon as she posts...

So what do guns have to do with it? Is this some kind of terminated relationship, an old enemy, or just something tossed in for the irritation factor that seems to be a requirement these days?

04-22-2004, 12:01 PM	#1
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	How's this for irony. Looking for anyone that's got any experience with an H&K Mark23? In comparison to the USP? I know there's a fair few gun nuts here so someone must have some experience. Not sure where to post it so I stuck it in here. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 04-22-2004 at 12:04 PM.

04-22-2004, 12:30 PM	#3
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Full size USP I assume from the size comment? (compact is pretty damn compact). __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

04-22-2004, 01:41 PM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I assume they would if I had done military service but that hasn't happened yet (and won't if all goes to plan). This is...a different matter. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

04-22-2004, 03:06 PM	#7
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I've had many previous arguments that those with longer memories (1 Year+) here will know well in favour of gun control. I was wondering on the recoil, I heard the full size USP is quite easy to handle. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

04-22-2004, 09:05 PM	#13
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	I don't know if you are fucking with us or not , I have NO experence with a HK M23 , but it is a full sized .45 cal , threaded barrel extention for a silencer , fittings for lights and or lazers , verry cool in my humble opinion , and i would LOVE to have one !!!!! __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

04-22-2004, 12:18 PM	#2
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	I own a H&K .45 USP and can tell you what I don't like about it, most of it being limited to its size when you carry, the amount of recoil, and the trigger pull required for double-action. What I do like about it: it has a safety that I really like, the grip feels good (especially in relation to the slide release, etc), and the gun seems to have the ability to take quite a beating. I know the Mark 23 is a hell of a lot more expensive, which is why I put it much further down on my list when I was looking. Note on these: never load them with cheap, waterproofed ammunition.

04-22-2004, 01:06 PM	#4
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	Hey, Jag, I thought the Swiss government just issued you (and every other Swiss male of military age) a weapon. What are you going to do? Start an insurgency over there?

04-22-2004, 03:01 PM	#6
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Full size USP I assume from the size comment? Ah -- sorry, no, this would be the compact. The USP compact is small, but not when you live in a warm climate and you have to figure out how to conceal carry. You can, but it isn't comfortable with a holster when sitting down. A lot of the issues I noted (recoil, etc) are specific to the compact and probably not to the full-size. ...and why is this ironic?

04-22-2004, 03:23 PM	#8
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	I was wondering on the recoil, I heard the full size USP is quite easy to handle. I would imagine it is a bit better than the compact as far as muzzle rise, etc. My biggest complaint about it is that the double-action (first shot, non-cocked) requires a pretty heavy trigger pull. It's enough that during the squeeze you'll move off target if you aren't careful. Why did I purchase it, then? It was the only gun with a real safety that was in the affordable range. I'm very pleased with it, regardless, but I'm never as accurate with it as I am the 9mm Ruger. I don't get to practice with it as much, either, because of the cost of the ammunition. HKs are well known for their ruggedness, but they will not eat the cheap stuff as I stated above. I once went through all my ammunition at a range and decided to purchase some from the desk. They handed me a box of "Wolf .45 ACP" (cheapy stuff, out of Russia, manufactured by children, etc), which turned out to be a huge mistake. This stuff was so thoroughly gunked over with waterproofing that it rubbed off and built up inside the chamber. The result was that on the 20th or so round, the gunk caused the casing to jam hard into the chamber. The slide still had a millimeter to travel before being fully closed and it couldn't be pulled back because of the extractor holding onto the round. I suppose this might not be a problem limited to this specific model of firearm, mind you. I was horrified when I saw the rangemaster attempt to use his "special technique" to fix it, which involved using a rubber mallet to try to drive the slide home. I haven't been back to that range since. Fixing it required that I carefully transport the pistol home where I was able to rock the extractor out of place, remove the slide, and pop the offending round out with a screwdriver. Placing a call to H&K about it yielded laughter when I told them the manufacturer of the ammo, followed by a firm scolding that went something like, "...you bought a precision firearm and loaded it with WHAT? Sir, are you really certain you are in the correct mind to own a firearm?" Grr.

04-22-2004, 03:26 PM	#9
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Hmm. Now that I think about it, why are you specifically looking at H&Ks and specifically the Mark 23 and USP? Just curious...

04-22-2004, 03:48 PM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Jag loves to be coy with us. He thinks it makes him look cooler!

04-22-2004, 08:21 PM	#12
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Jag loves to be coy with us. He thinks it makes him look cooler! Really? Wow, what a jackass.

04-22-2004, 09:06 PM	#14
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	This is a set up...Jag is trying to coax Maggie on here only to pounce on her as soon as she posts...

04-22-2004, 09:23 PM	#15
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	This is a set up...Jag is trying to coax Maggie on here only to pounce on her as soon as she posts... So what do guns have to do with it? Is this some kind of terminated relationship, an old enemy, or just something tossed in for the irritation factor that seems to be a requirement these days?

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