Understanding terrorism

[tw]

Originally Posted by marichiko

Iraq is about oil. Forget religion, forget democracy, forget crimes against humanity (Jr. commits them all the time with little, if any public comment), forget the "war on terror."

Junior went into Iraq after 9/11 in order to make it appear to the public that he was making a response to terrorism. It didn't hurt things any that a strong American force in that region will be essential to securing US strategic oil reserves.

Oil is a major part of the strategy. But it is a strategy that is Central Asia wide. For example, learn the politics behind the Caspian Sea oil pipeline. Pipeline intentionally routed so that the Russians have no influence. Carefully laid using detailed political considerations. The US is even talking about Georgia becoming part of the EU. It is why the pipeline does not run through both adversarial nations (ie. Armenia and Azerbaijan). It is why the US is courting so many K'stan nations.

It is why SCO (Shanghai Co-operation Organization) exists. From The Economist of 9 July 2005:

Judging from the activities of the member states (China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kirgizstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan), three principles define that new order: slaking China's thirst for energy, protecting member states as they tryrannise dissidents and curbing America's influence in the region.

We would not be in this problem if our energy consumption industry would innovate. GM being the classic reason why Americans must now get into a conflict and the quagmire that is Middle East and Central Asia. With innovation, American would have no trade deficient and could reduce energy consumption by up to 50% (and not by everyone driving Pintos as right wing extremists and other power brokers hype). Indeed, this is the technology that will be developed and sold by others (the competition) in later decades if America does not innovate today. History only repeating itself.

Meanwhile, we have also stated intentions on Iran. More nations we must fix to address an energy, per capita, that is about double what the rest of the world requires. The word is called waste. Either we fix the waste at home or we waste American lives in those other nations.

Meanwhile, there is no way around religion, ethnic rivalries, etc. If we demand energy now, then we must invade what we don't like; those that might impede the energy flow. We must get them to think like us; impose democracy upon them. But we could curb our appetite using innovation and let those nations first solve their own problems.

Yes oil is a primary function of this new American Imperialism - to get the oil at all cost. It is not the only reason - but oil is clearly a dominate reason. A recent massacre in Kirgizstan would be totally irrelevant if we were not trying to cozy up even to corrupt regimes. Yes we even have military bases in those countries. Why? What is the threat?

Today we must fix their religion to exploit our interests. To walk in without even knowing what is and is not important - ie religion - are the same reasons why the US is making enemies even among some of what were once friends in the region (ie Syria)

Do you know about the gas pipeline from Russia into Turkey? If you have knowledge of regional politics, then you better understand the significance of that pipeline. More interesting are so many Americans with opinions - who did not even know about the Russian Turkey pipeline or the massive politics behind the Caspian Sea pipeline.

We state the nations we intend to invade. Iran is next. Curious - another oil nation that does not kowtow to American demands. No problem. We will fix their government? Clearly that is sufficient to the cannon fodder among us to hype a war. That is enough for our religious extremists to hype a mission of saving them from their evil religious extremists.

What happened to the simple explanations such as Weapons of Mass Destruction? The real reasons are too complex for the masses to understand especially when most 20 year olds don't even read or listen to real news. Did you know about the SCO? Did you understand the significance when China failed to find oil in their Xinjian province? Why didn't Rush Limbaugh discuss this?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I'm sure that the key people who matter know that the "war" is really on radical Islamism, not al Qaeda.

On Wednesday night The Daily Show mocked the semantic shift in the administration because they have stopped calling it "The Global War on Terror" and have started calling it "The Global Struggle against Violent Extremism".

One can suppose that they don't reference Islam directly because it focuses too many people at Islam in general, reinforcing racism and intolerance and pissing off moderate Muslims.

[Trilby]

The Catholic Church is Pagan? Where, where have I been?
tw, you are truly a font of knowledge.

[lookout123]

it's best not to rattle a troll's cage unless you want said troll to chew on your bones.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lookout123

it's best not to rattle a troll's cage unless you want said troll to chew on your bones.

Notice that Lookout123 will only post insults. Weak minds are easily converted to religious right extremist doctrine. Oh. I' sorry. I just posted exactly like Lookout123. My mistake. I forget to post a supporting fact with my posts.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

The Catholic Church is Pagan? Where, where have I been?
tw, you are truly a font of knowledge.

Do they say that man was created in the image of god? Then god has human like characteristics - just like the Roman and Greek gods. IOW using Socrates logic, a Catholic Church god is a pagan god like Zeus and Apollo.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Brianna

The Catholic Church is Pagan? Where, where have I been?
tw, you are truly a font of knowledge.

There are several of the nuttier fundamentalist Protestant sects that think Catholics are Pagans or Satanists.

[Trilby]

true. true. I've had too much

I was just wondering from whence his transmissions come because his posts seem less like posts and more like some sort of remote-hypergraphia; like remote-viewing, only you need a keyboard.

[Trilby]

HOLY SHIT! What do the Prod's say? What do the Jews say?

tw, why do you hate people?

[lookout123]

aw shucks tw, you sure danced circles around me again. i sure hope to be brilliant like you some day. i suppose if i barf the last book i read into a post, it would be a good start.

*just so you know - my troll comment was just to rattle your cage. this comment gets a little closer to an insult. *

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

tw, why do you hate people?

People want their freedom. People respect others rights. They don't stifle innovation. They don't impose on others misguided preachings from an obsolete book. Good people don't let religion pervert them to the dark side of the force. The dark side - when religion becomes anything other than a relationship between you and your god.

Those who love people would condemn religions that would even create the Spanish Inquisition and condone pedophilia (and not even apologize for it), condone torture (as the American religious right does), and massacre innocent Spanish citizens only because their government participates in an unjustified crusade against another sovereign nation. All this done only because religion somehow knows better?

But you tell me. Show me how good a church is that even told us to hate Jews because of what happened to Jesus. How could I love people and be a part of such hatred? Hatred does not exist just in Islamic extremists. It exists in those who so hate as to stifle the advancement of mankind and innovation; such as stem cell research and kidney transplants. Those who love people do not fear innovation; so fear as to even hype an obvious myth called intelligent design. Good people would not put up with such hatred for mankind’s advancement.

Meanwhile, more people could have been killed in London yesterday. Why? Because religion is so good for people? You tell me who really promotes hate. I have simply carried the message - hatred promoted by religious concepts. Do these mythical gods really exist? Then why do their doctrines promote murder - a hatred for mankind?

[lookout123]

*yawn* the only person i've heard who has a broader brush for their stereotyping would be your pal Rush.

Stepping in as devil's advocate for a moment, I, too, have heard the Catholic church described as pagan. If I can find a cite, I'll post it.

Ah, HERE it is.

You may now resume your squabble. :p

[Trilby]

[quote=tw] Meanwhile, more people could have been killed in London yesterday. Why? Because religion is so good for people? You tell me who really promotes hate. I have simply carried the message - hatred promoted by religious concepts. Do these mythical gods really exist? Then why do their doctrines promote murder - a hatred for mankind?[/QUOT

I never intimated that religion was "good for people", I don't subscribe to any organized religion. I know that a lot of people promote hate and it's ususally the love of filthy lucre that drives it. They may wrap themselves in the robes of this-or-that religion, but it always comes down to money.

But you didn't answer the question. Why do YOU hate people? Not why do you hate religion. It's easy to hate religion. It's easy to generalize--you spank cellarites and say they are generalizing the beliefs of the muslims but then you go and generalize Catholics, right-wingers, etc. You do the very thing you say you despise.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

But you didn't answer the question. Why do YOU hate people? Not why do you hate religion. It's easy to hate religion. It's easy to generalize--you spank cellarites and say they are generalizing the beliefs of the muslims but then you go and generalize Catholics, right-wingers, etc. You do the very thing you say you despise.

Where do I ever post a single hatred of people? For that matter, where do I post a hate for religion? I post criticism of religion that is not blunt enough. Religion that becomes more than a relationship between a man and his god is satanism - turning to the dark side - classic vampire propaganda - etc. But there is no hate there. Stated is what is best for religion. To come to grips with why they are the source of problems - be it stifling of stem cell research, the reason for suicide bombs on commuter trains, or the Spanish Inquisition. These are examples of religion gone bad.

I answered your question. A strong rebuking of those who post insults and never post supporting facts - in the tradition of Rush Limbaugh - is what I believe you have mistaken for hate. People are great - especially when not brainwashed using Rush Limbaugh logic: people who just know and need not know why they know.

Religion that goes beyond its boundaries - a relationship between a man and his god - also turns good people bad. It is not a hatred of people. It is a spanking of the institutions that want to turn good people against one another - for self serving agendas.

So where specifically is this example of 'people hate'? I don't see it. I did anwer your question. I defined, for example, why good people turn bad. Religion with a political agenda being a perfect example. An understanding who and what terrorists really are is also important. Others such as George Jr would promote hate rather than understand that he promotes hate with the Pearl Harboring of Iraq. That he - like religion - knows what is better for those people? What George Jr advocates is hatred of people - imposing George Jr's beliefs on a region as if only George Jr knows what is good for them. Sounds much like another failed institution - Imperialism.

Hatred of muslims principles is not a solution, as the George Jr administration implies. After all, they are infidels and therefore can be tortured? They don't even deserve fundamental human rights because they are in Guantanamo? That is bull. But that is an example of the hatred promoted by George Jr and his fundamentalist friends who find Guantanamo to be a good thing. Where does accurate ciriticism of myopic American government extremists, or of religious extremists constitute a hatred of people? That's like saying I hate people because I speak out against Nazism.

Meanwhile, do you see me protecting pedophiles. Banning "Voices of the Faithful" only because they are demanding reform? Do you see me imposing my religious beliefs on others? Where have I generalized all muslims? I defined some types of muslims and a religion that has remained in denial as to what they were creating. These different types of muslim that George Jr always calls Al Qaeda. I have defined both terrorist or insurgent that meet different criteria. A common factor (and not in every case) is some silly belief that religion - a spirital concept - should dominate and be imposed upon a pragmatic world. Just as a Catholic Church taught me to hate Jews because of what happened to Jesus. For being so critical of the Catholic Church, now I must hate people?

I have no idea what you are asking because I did answer your question AND because you don't provide specific examples. What (as best I can tell) is called a hatred of people is, instead, a pointed criticism of the institutions (and president) who would promote hate among people. If Christian fundamentalist were so loving, then there would be massive demonstrations by Christian fundamentalists against Guantanamo and those who created Abu Ghraid. Instead these 'so called' righteous people find Guantanamo to be a good thing. Is that a hatred of Christian fundamantalists. No. It is a damning example of why they have let themselves be decieved. Why their need to imposed their religious beliefs on this nation are also dangerous. They would even tacitally support torture because those in Guantanamo must be terrorists? It goes right back to the original question of what really is a terrorist. Clearly not Al Qaeda as promoted by our government.

So how does that criticism of our president and government constitute a hatred of people? It does get Lookout123 to only post insults in reply. Why does Lookout123 then not get accused of hating people since he will post something that is nothing but one big personal insult - AND not even justify his insults?