Anger Over Mohammed Cartoon

[busterb]

And, him and humbug posting shit not marked NSFW. UT has threads for that.
Cool UT!

[Pie]

I'm certainly not crying. I'd personally like to kick Irving in the balls, as well as send him to prison. I just don't think censorship's the right way to go about serving him with what he deserves.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pie

I'm certainly not crying. I'd personally like to kick Irving in the balls, as well as send him to prison. I just don't think censorship's the right way to go about serving him with what he deserves.

Which means you also find the free exchange and distribution of pedophilia acceptable? Is censorship not the right way to go about those who promote pedophilia pictures?

[Pie]

Originally Posted by tw

Which means you also find the free exchange and distribution of pedophilia acceptable? Is censorship not the right way to go about those who promote pedophilia pictures?

Actually, that's a very good question. Arguably, you cannot create kiddie porn without harming the kiddies -- that's the legal basis for banning the porn. There's been a whole new can o' worms opened with the concept of "virtual" kiddies -- no real person is being hurt. I still haven't made up my mind on this one.
Yes, pedophiles harm children. Yes, they usually can't be rehabilitated. But unless we want to start giving everyone psych/genetic testing and eliminating all the "unfits", we have to draw the line somewhere. Do the person's actions infringe upon the rights of others? (Where's Radar when I need him?)
- Pie

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Pie

Yes, they usually can't be rehabilitated.

Source, please. I keep hearing the line "they can't be cured" and "they can't be rehabilitated", but my Abnormal Psych class and book said otherwise.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Source, please. I keep hearing the line "they can't be cured" and "they can't be rehabilitated", but my Abnormal Psych class and book said otherwise.

Kit, I got no source. If you've taken Abnormal Psych (cool name) you're way ahead of me. I'm just quoting the prevailing wisdom, a la foot3.
So, what does the AP book say about pedophiles and their treatment?
-Pie

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pie

Actually, that's a very good question. Arguably, you cannot create kiddie porn without harming the kiddies -- that's the legal basis for banning the porn. There's been a whole new can o' worms opened with the concept of "virtual" kiddies -- no real person is being hurt. I still haven't made up my mind on this one.
Yes, pedophiles harm children. Yes, they usually can't be rehabilitated.

Recidivism among pedophiles is reported to be one of the lowest among criminals - about 15%. Crimes such as vehicle theft are typically 60+%. Above being a secondary point.

Primary point: one can appreciate Austria's fear or need (which one is part of a larger question) to make such holocaust laws that would otherwise be a violation of free speech. There is a line somewhere - subjectively. And that is the point.

However Irving all but flaunted that law. As long as he stayed out of Austria, then there would be no extradition. But Irving was either so obviously bold or so simply stupid as to go to Austria to give a speech to right wing extremist students. He all but begged Austria to enforce their laws. Austria did just that. IOW the purpose and enforcement of that law becomes secondary. The real penalty to Irving is because 1) he outrightly lied to the court about his change of opinion, and 2) he outrightly challenged Austria to enforce their laws.

Need we also cite an unfortunate American example - Dr Kevorkian?

[Pie]

Originally Posted by tw

Recidivism among pedophiles is reported to be one of the lowest among criminals - about 15%. Crimes such as vehicle theft are typically 60+%. Above being a secondary point.

Yes, I agreed to entertain this concept when Kitsune pointed it out, above.

Originally Posted by tw

Primary point: one can appreciate Austria's fear or need (which one is part of a larger question) to make such holocaust laws that would otherwise be a violation of free speech. There is a line somewhere - subjectively. And that is the point.

All I am trying to say is that I am not happy with the Austrian's location of that line. Capisci? I think I've said it two or three times now.

Originally Posted by tw

However Irving all but flaunted that law. As long as he stayed out of Austria, then there would be no extradition. But Irving was either so obviously bold or so simply stupid as to go to Austria to give a speech to right wing extremist students. He all but begged Austria to enforce their laws. Austria did just that. IOW the purpose and enforcement of that law becomes secondary. The real penalty to Irving is because 1) he outrightly lied to the court about his change of opinion, and 2) he outrightly challenged Austria to enforce their laws.
Need we also cite an unfortunate American example - Dr Kevorkian?

Fine whatever, throw them all in the klink. The ONLY point I was trying to make is that the definition of that "line" is awfully important.

tw, you're very good at arguing with yourself.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I thought DOV was a woman.
UT done good!

Rack rails for which I had to pay extra for overnight delivery.

(Looking for checkbook) Thank you, Sir.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I thought DOV was a woman.

He-- he wasn't?

[Aliantha]

I think he meant 'censured' not 'censored'. Of course we all know the two words although very similar have slightly different meanings.

[footfootfoot]

dov's gone?

thank god. it was getting so boring I was about to listen to genesis.

[Beestie]

Whhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh.

Guess I can stop holding my breath now. Ahhhh, much better.

[Tonchi]

Thanks to you, UT, for shoveling that stinking pile of shit off the porch here. I never even attempted to comment on anything that jerk wrote because I could tell from his first week onsite that this was all a game he was playing. It's called Mind Fuck. I've seen it played before and I'll confess having tried it myself when I was considerably less mature. The object is not to learn or expound anything, the only purpose is to confound the person(s) you are talking to at every turn. Even if it means spinning on your heels and reversing your previous position, you must never let the other person form a reply or get a handle on the bombast you are hurling at him, always be derisive and negative, and always crush down any attempt to point out facts or pin down one element to resolve it. The subject is irrelevant, the player gets his kicks from preventing anything other that the thread he controls from entering into the discussion. It is manipulative to the max, that is the sole purpose of the game, and I watched that jerk even switch directions and compliment some of you on your "astute observations" so that he could continue to play ringmaster and keep the game moving. I don't doubt that people who like this kind of thing are sociopaths. The game of Mind Fuck is a mainstay on college campuses where there are a lot of immature kids who are trying to make themselves appear powerful and clever, and there are lots of people the gamer can play with who have not reached the point in their lives of knowing what they believe or how to express it. Given the level of intellectual development at The Cellar, I'm amazed that nobody caught on. Dov was just pushing buttons and blowing smoke, he didn't have any agenda more important than making an increasingly disgusting mess and seeing how long we would put up with it.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Thanks to you, UT, for shoveling that stinking pile of shit off the porch here. I never even attempted to comment on anything that jerk wrote because I could tell from his first week onsite that this was all a game he was playing. It's called Mind Fuck. I've seen it played before and I'll confess having tried it myself when I was considerably less mature. The object is not to learn or expound anything, the only purpose is to confound the person(s) you are talking to at every turn. Even if it means spinning on your heels and reversing your previous position, you must never let the other person form a reply or get a handle on the bombast you are hurling at him, always be derisive and negative, and always crush down any attempt to point out facts or pin down one element to resolve it. The subject is irrelevant, the player gets his kicks from preventing anything other that the thread he controls from entering into the discussion. It is manipulative to the max, that is the sole purpose of the game, and I watched that jerk even switch directions and compliment some of you on your "astute observations" so that he could continue to play ringmaster and keep the game moving. I don't doubt that people who like this kind of thing are sociopaths. The game of Mind Fuck is a mainstay on college campuses where there are a lot of immature kids who are trying to make themselves appear powerful and clever, and there are lots of people the gamer can play with who have not reached the point in their lives of knowing what they believe or how to express it. Given the level of intellectual development at The Cellar, I'm amazed that nobody caught on. Dov was just pushing buttons and blowing smoke, he didn't have any agenda more important than making an increasingly disgusting mess and seeing how long we would put up with it.

you mean except for you, that is. i think pretty much everyone knew he was a troll. your putting it under the label of 'mind fuck' ( which is a corny term that is overused and underdescriptive) doesn't change it. i'm curious as to why you didn't express this opinion until after he was banned? is it a case of hindsight, or were you scared of him? i'm left with the taste of condescendingnessosity* in my mouth after reading your post. you practicing to be tw's apprentice?

*yeah, i made it up