Ancient Ecosystem Found in Israel

What I can never figure out is why evolution can not be part of the "intellect's design" if you need that to be true for some reason?

[Flint]

Three words: God Created Evolution.

:::evolution vs. creation debate vanishes in puff of rhetorical smoke:::

[Happy Monkey]

That's the stance that the Catholics take. It's one that most scientists can live with, and many (possibly most) subscribe to. It's the Genesis-literalists who keep the debate going.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Flint

Three words: God Created Evolution.

:::evolution vs. creation debate vanishes in puff of rhetorical smoke:::

Yeah, but God said he created the world in 6 days, so if you say God created evolution, then God must be a liar, because evolution says the world is much older than that. We can't have God being a liar. So we have to go with the idea that evolution is wrong. Ya see?

[Flint]

Another thing is that, somehow, the definition of the word God never gets discussed much. To me, God means roughly the same thing as Mother Nature, or, more accurately, the collective organization of natural laws in the universe. That's right: evolution created evolution.

Originally Posted by glatt

Yeah, but God said he created the world in 6 days, so if you say God created evolution, then God must be a liar, because evolution says the world is much older than that. We can't have God being a liar. So we have to go with the idea that evolution is wrong. Ya see?

The word "day" is not easily interpreted and has other meanings and is not specific in the original text within that line. My study Torah has a whole paragraph dedicated to this topic.
Basically God's "day" can be anything from 24 hours to 24 million years.

[wylkyn]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

It's the Genesis-literalists who keep the debate going.

What I wonder is how the Genesis-literalists get past the fact that chapters 1 & 2 of Genesis have 2 different versions of the creation myth, one in which man is created before the animals, and the other in which man is created after the animals. If you believe that the Bible is a literal account of creation, then these both can't be true.

[Happy Monkey]

Ah, but you can only read one of those at a time!

[Happy Monkey]

I got an interesting cookie from St. Augustine, that led me to his quote on the literal interpretation of Genesis:

“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men…. Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by these who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.”

(Augustine, “De Genesi ad Litteram” On the Literal Meaning of Genesis, pp. 42-43)

Of course, the cookie quote shows him doing what he was cautioning others not to do:

The good Christian should beware of mathematicians and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell.

[Happy Monkey]

Unless he was talking about astrologers, as seems likely... "Mathematician" as currently used probably was more of a hobby than a profession at that point.

[wylkyn]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I got an interesting cookie from St. Augustine, that led me to his quote on the literal interpretation of Genesis...

Actually, that first quote is a more reasonable statement than I would have expected from St. Auggy. I think the last time I read him was back when I was doing a paper on free will vs. determinism. I seem to recall his argument on how free will can exist with an omniscient God was something along the lines of "stop asking so many freaking questions!" Needless to say I didn't read much from him after that.

Science team finds 'lost world'

An international team of scientists says it has found a "lost world" in the Indonesian jungle that is home to dozens of new animal and plant species.
"It's beautiful, untouched, unpopulated forest; there's no evidence of human impact or presence"
Dr Bruce Beehler, Conservation International


The Foja Mountains are a hotspot for frogs, says the Conservation International Rapid Assessment Program expedition team (Image: Stephen Richards)

[Griff]

I'm afraid they're going to have to look a lot more tribble-like if you want people to care about them...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Don't worry Griff, by the time the chef finishes with them, they'll look lovely.

Originally Posted by Griff

I'm afraid they're going to have to look a lot more tribble-like if you want people to care about them...