Columbia Has Apparently Broken up on Reentry

[Undertoad]

Tom, which year did the Bush administration request a cut in the NASA budget? I'm trying to figure that one out, and I can't find it anywhere.

Time's up. Bush has never requested a cut in the NASA budget, and never ever will.

NASA is a jobs program for many locations, but especially in two places of tremendous political interest to Bush.

One is Houston, Bush's home town. The other is central Florida, where Bush's bro is Governor and where there was apparently a very tight race for the Presidency a few years back.

Now, I was unable to get the exact budget numbers, because clear descriptions of the federal budget are apparently lacking on the net. I did find that the NASA budget wavered a great deal during the Clinton administration, and that many both inside and outside of the organization were highly alarmed by 1999 cuts. After Clinton it appears that NASAs budget has been consistently on the rise; it was below $10B through 1999, and is something like $14B this year and has been marked for modest increase.

Tom, YOU TELL ME what to think of an engineering type who blatantly makes facts up to support his position. Shouldn't you be appalled at your own behavior in this thread? Why should any readers trust your future statements?

[mw451]

Originally posted by jaguar


go back to cooking dinner, ... but clearly you were too busy peeling potatos to read what i was talking about ... you were a little to engrossed in whether the pasta was al dente

So how about your dumb-founded, idiotic post and ram it up your arse. Read before you fly off the handle, halfwit.

Now personally i beleive you're just using this as a way to vent frustration caused by other elements of your life, so do us all a favour and next time take it out on the carrots before you jump online.

I wrote "I read it at work, came home, cooked dinner, then got on here to reply."

I did not write that I cooked dinner while writing my post as you put it, so in your words, take your "dumb-founded, idiotic post and ram it up your arse."

Next time READ. I did not attack all of you post, I attacked your take on "Sorry but this really has zero effect on my life and certainly does not attract the tantamount importance you seem to put on it."

This could be true, if applied only to the accident, unless a piece landed in your yard. But, my overall post was that the technology that has come from the space program has indeed affected all of us whether we know it or not.

That's it. That's all I was trying to say.

Now, in the next post I'll address the issues you brought up.

AND, DON'T even get on me for cooking dinner every night for my wife and kid... I love cooking, enjoy it, and never even want them to say thank you, they do and I say "you don't have to thank me." Have you even cooked a Thanksgiving dinner for 10? Or planned and cooked dinners every night for months on end? I doubt it, so shut up. We, my family, enjoy cooking, so ...:p

mw

[mw451]

Originally posted by jaguar
*yawn*
Nice rant. Pity you missed my point entirely,

My issue was with elspode's "Humanity needs it". Which, as I stated, as far as I’m concerned, is bullshit. ... This idea that all of us need some mostly abstract intangible goal to make ourselves feel better, than the human race needs some idiotic goal of putting something or someone somewhere that requires allot of work for the good of the mental well-being of all people. Thus, what I was saying, ableit inarticulately, was that I, don't need that, nor do I believe many other people do.

Man has always explored, for as long as we can determine. It's not really that "humanity" so-to-speak, needs it, it's more that it is the will of man, the dream. We explore the seas, the skies, the mountains and forests, the woods in our back yards, volcanoes, and space. Space, since now we have the technology. Man dreamed of going to the moon or into space for as long as we can determine. We can do it now so why not?

We have been to the moon. What did we learn? I don't know all the answers, but I have touched the moon rock at the Air and Space Museum every single time that I've gone there, it's a favorite... to touch the moon. Is that useful? Maybe not, but we did learn what the moon is composed of, and made a "giant leap for mankind".

Does humanity need this? No. But Man, Yes.

Did we need to go to the North or South pole? Did we need to dive deep to the wreck of the Titanic? Did we need to climb Mount Everest? Humanity does not get anything from these achievements, overall. But Man, Man accomplished this, that is just a bit different. Man has been there, left his foot print, (except Titanic wreck), and returned to tell the story, or bring back an artifact.

That's what exploration is about. Yes, I agree, it's fascinating, and good does come form it, me beef was that you said...

...zero effect on my life...

It has had an effect, whether you know it or not.

That's all. Sorry for the rant, as you put it, I was mad, OK?

mw

[elSicomoro]

UT, you are blatantly wrong. So long as you have any ideas or present any information contrary to tw, you are a no good son-of-a-biscuit. The end.

[mw451]

Originally posted by Griff
Cutting edge
technology
velcro
Freeze dried food
Waldmar Jungner NiCad
Sir William Grove fuel cell

OK, I typed whole lotta stuff on this, and my browser lost it. So here it is in brief. I did not say that NASA invented these things, they used and improved them. The government does not patent it's ideas, it's contractors do.

Technology: OK, they're shopping on E-Bay, most older parts are nolonger available, i.e. Titan rockets no longer being made, but NASA still uses them on occasion. Also, with a limited budget, it's cheaper to get parts online than thru the GAO.

Velcro: We all know about the sticky things in the woods that cling to your pants and legs, that's where the idea came from. But, NASA had them (I think it was 3M), make it better than the original Velcro. Also, they put it to the first practical use, and the public wanted that "stick stuff".

Freeze Dried Food: Most likely first dicovered by the Inuits, to their benefit. It had been around for awhile, but was not of good quality, think Sanka. NASA knew that freeze dried was the way to go, to compact storage and preservation, but it had to bee better tasting. NASA required better freeze dried food for it's astronauts to eat, leading to better freeze dried food on our store shelves, (if I can actually say that without gagging).

Ni-Cads: OK, this was new to me, i had no idea it was such an old idea. But, NASA needed re-chargeable batteries for the Sky-Lab and other satellites and systems that would go form light to dark. During day, the solar panels charged the batteries, at night the batteries supplied the power. Not until they were bettered/perfected by NASA did we have them in our homes, in cordless power tools, remote control cars, as regular replacement batteries able to be re-charged, etc.

Fuel Cell: NASA realized that batteries would not cut it forever. And agian, I was suprised that the fuel cell was discovered many years ago. But the Hydrogen Fuel Cell was not listed. Anyway, NASA uses them in the shuttles, and now we have them in Hybrid cars. This would not have happened if NASA had not invested the time and money into making these things smaller and safer. They will most likely be the power for our cars in the future.

Thanks Griff for the links, and not reaming me out for my references, but I did not claim that NASA invented them, only that they have come into more popular use because NASA improved or perfected the technologies, and that lead to them being more available, and now in our homes.

mw

[mw451]

...whatever UT said.


BTW, I'm fairly new, so I hope I can refer to UT as UT.

And, my dad's name is Tom, and his intials are tw. :p

mw

[Undertoad]

(OMG, tw's kid is posting now! Save yourselves!)

[jaguar]

Next time READ. I did not attack all of you post, I attacked your take on "Sorry but this really has zero effect on my life and certainly does not attract the tantamount importance you seem to put on it."

You attacked what i said, which is what i posed, which is my post. Bloody hell i need a battering ram to get things through your thick head don't I?
Zero effect in the sense of this 'humanity needs it' idea, not in a sense that it my laptop is powered by derivitive technology for crying out loud, how many times do I need to say it. Technology is irrelevent to my point. I'll frame it to make it easier to digest: Whether we send a man to mars or not does not have any emotional or psychologycal effect on me. Whether we explore the wreck of the titanic has no emotional or psychological effect on me, i don't get a warm fuzzy glow knowing 'man has done something.

Have i made my point clear enough now? I should have said zero emotinal/psychological effect the first time, either way i hope you get what i'm saying now.

I enjoy cooking too, what the hell is your point? My planning schedule tends to be closer to half an hour though.

[tw]

Taking cheap insults by Undertoad
Tom, YOU TELL ME what to think of an engineering type who blatantly makes facts up to support his position. Shouldn't you be appalled at your own behavior in this thread? Why should any readers trust your future statements?

NASA's published budget alone does not reflect the actual budget. The 1990s were about establishing trust between the US and Russia. Fundamental to establishing trust was a program that involved Americans and Russians from the highest levels of government down to cooperation among technology workers. That program was cooperation in space, and its centerpiece, ISS.

But ISS ballooned from $8 billion to support 12 passengers to over $150 billion for only 3 occupants. Where does that extra money come from? Its not all in NASA's budget. Much funding for ISS was through alternative budget entries. Those alternative funds are how the Clinton administration covered ballooning ISS costs and a funding shortage in Russia.

Depending on who you talk to, NASA budgets remained stagnant or dropping as much as 40% over the past 10 years. But what really changed is when alternative funding programs expired during George Jr's administration (actually end of Clinton's administration) . In reality, NASA was suppose to cut or phase back on programs that were too expensive to operate.

However that did not happen. Somehow NASA was expected to keep Columbia flying, keep ISS growing, and channel few other funds to robotic space exploration, all on the same budget without that supplemental funding. X-37 rescue craft was canceled due to lack of funds. But NASA must establish a new strategic objective more in line with limited funds. That objective has not been defined.

Having recognized problem they were creating by so much funding cuts, George Jr's latest budget offered a $1/2billion budget increase for NASA. It is something. But it is too little for what NASA is expected to perform.

Necessary is a new strategic objective for NASA. Science in the manned flight program is all but non-existant because a program of cooperation (ISS) is soaking up all funds in cost overruns. So why are we still manning and operating ISS? It has no purpose other than continued cooperation between Russian and American organizations.

In the meantime, acidic insults by UT that have no relevance to the thread. Maybe he does this to entertain his sidekick Sycamore. Either way, UT has posted a paragraph of wasted bandwidth while ignoring the point of that post.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by tw
In the meantime, acidic insults by UT that have no relevance to the thread. Maybe he does this to entertain his sidekick Sycamore.

Holy shit...UT, can I REALLY be your sidekick? That would kick ass!

[jaguar]

I did a little look into the nasa budget cut thing myself, seems bush cut some areas and promoted others. Like nuclear weaponary over human flight.

[perth]

hey! how do you know hes not *your* sidekick?

~james

[Undertoad]

Acidic and irrelevant, but this time correct. I can live wit dat.

We're all sidekicks in the search for truth -n- justice! Neeeeee-haw! Nee I say nee I say neeeeeeeeeeee hawwwwwwww!

[elSicomoro]

Interesting thought, James...I mean, yeah, I'm pretty fucking cool and all...I'd let you be my sidekick. But we're talking about Shepps here...he's damned near untouchable.

Regarding NASA, I found some switcheroos, but an overall increase in funding. But as usual, I'm just a big ol' fucking Dubya worshipper who kisses ignorance full on the mouth with tongue.

[tw]

Originally posted by sycamore
But as usual, I'm just a big ol' fucking Dubya worshipper who kisses ignorance full on the mouth with tongue.

Always been meaning to ask. What does he taste like? Tobasco?