Shooting at Virginia Tech

[Aliantha]

Yes wolf, I was talking about Port Arthur.

[Aliantha]

Just to add to the above argument, there's really no way to refute that the US does have aspects of culture which are violent. That being said, there are many other countries in the world where you're more likely to die a violent death than the US.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Just to add to the above argument, there's really no way to refute that the US does have aspects of culture which are violent.

...and that, I think, is an issue more complex than the availability of weapons or what is portrayed in the media. The reason the US broadcasts that it has a violent culture and is viewed as being a violent place are disconnected from the reality of the actual violence that takes place and the reasons for it. Symptom and disease are connected but pinpointing any single cause in the mess of social issues, class gaps, racial tension, apathy, mental illness, media encouragement, gun laws, and lack of community would be impossible.

That said, as details emerge Cho Seung-hui to reveal a disturbed individual, I believe that no amount of previous weapons legislation, peaceful culture, or security precautions would have prevented the massacre that seems to have been triggered by either mental illness, childhood abuse, or both. Any warning signs that would have hinted at future violence and the need for treatment were overlooked by friends and purposely ignored by family years ago just as were those of Charles Whitman. The underlying reasons for Cho Seung-hui's actions have no connection to a "violent culture" or the desire to commit crimes for personal gain -- making the connection to this incident and daily crime in the US is foolish. When people snap like this, preventative measures have to be personal and need to have occurred years prior to the breaking point.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

...and that, I think, is an issue more complex than the availability of weapons or what is portrayed in the media. The reason the US broadcasts that it has a violent culture and is viewed as being a violent place are disconnected from the reality of the actual violence that takes place and the reasons for it. Symptom and disease are connected but pinpointing any single cause in the mess of social issues, class gaps, racial tension, apathy, mental illness, media encouragement, gun laws, and lack of community would be impossible.

Well stated. Good summary.

[Ibby]

Having lived in both and loving neither, I can definitely say that America IS a lot more violent than Hong Kong. It's not just a media issue.

But it's also a lot more free, and a lot more diverse, and a lot more chaotic, and a lot more polarized, all of which for better or worse.

Yes, compared to hong kong or taipei or even beijing, america practically IS a crime-ridden terrible violent place.
That violence is a direct consequence of freedom. When you have no freedom you don't get uppity and shoot people.

I'll take the freedom and the violence, if you please.

[Aliantha]

There are those that would argue that freedom is not the source of violence. Rather that imprisonment is.

[Undertoad]

News in the US goes by one slogan: "If it bleeds, it leads!"

I live next to the city with the highest homicide rate in the country (thanks Mayor Street!) and yet I have never personally witnessed a gun crime. 95% of crime is located in drug neighborhoods where there is battle over turf. If you don't go there, and it's easy to know where "there" is, you are not affected by the homicide rate. That's not to say it's not a problem, just not the kind of problem you think it is.

[DanaC]

suppose if I said the moon was made of cheddar cheese you would have a friend that has been there and claims it was made of swiss

That made me laugh:P

[SadistSecret]

You're both wrong. The moon is made from Provolone.

[ferret88]

Originally Posted by SadistSecret

You're both wrong. The moon is made from Provolone.

I thought it was Meunster

[SadistSecret]

News like that is the reason I don't watch the news. I scroll through the stories that interest me on my MSN.com page, but other than that, I really don't care what goes on in the world.

I especially hate "Inside Edition" with whats-her-face on CBS.

[Spexxvet]

Now the big issue is "there were indications that this guy would go postal, but we couldn't do anything other than recommend counselling", and that VT should have "done something". Hopefully Wolf can shed some light on this, but it doesn't seem like some person or institution can force action on someone because they behave outside the norm.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Now the big issue is "there were indications that this guy would go postal, but we couldn't do anything other than recommend counselling", and that VT should have "done something". Hopefully Wolf can shed some light on this, but it doesn't seem like some person or institution can force action on someone because they behave outside the norm.

I actually faced a similar issue some semesters ago. From day one in my physiology class, a male student sat in the very back of class and spent a lot of the time talking to himself. He was loud enough that he was repeatedly asked to quiet down and the prof eventually pulled him aside and had a word with him, but the only thing he would say to her was that he "hated her" and "hated the class". Some days later after another class, the student punched another for no reason at all. Police were called, no charges were pressed (the victim later said he simply wanted to know what prompted the unexpected assault from this person he didn't know and didn't even speak to, but got no clear answer) and life went on. One day, he stopped showing up to class, much to everyone's relief. Most found him highly annoying and "just weird". We figured with the grades he was getting that he finally gave up and dropped.

We learned, later, that wasn't the case. He had snapped inside a Radio Shack in a local mall and killed two random people before killing himself.

He had acted strange in class, had at least one violent outburst, but there simply wasn't enough there to baker act him. For this student majoring in psychology, the professors that all had degrees in the field didn't pick up on enough of his warning signs to do anything about it.

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

He had acted strange in class, had at least one violent outburst, but there simply wasn't enough there to baker act him. For this student majoring in psychology, the professors that all had degrees in the field didn't pick up on enough of his warning signs to do anything about it.

It's a catch 22. We are supposed to have a right to act/say/do whatever we want as long as it doesn't 'hurt' anyone else. Unfortunately, the warning signs of potential future harm usually fall under this so that those who recognize the symptoms of someting serious can't do anything.

However, if we allow 'experts' to have people 'tagged' for closer examination, there will be a group of people who will pipe up about infringing on personal freedoms. It's a very very thin line in a murky grey area.

As a person with a history of mental illness, I rely on my family to point out to me when I need a little tweaking. If I didn't have them, or friends I could trust, I could easily get to a very low point, (though I doubt I would cause anyone but myself harm).

I'm not advocating for troops of rogue psychiatrists roaming the streets with rorschach cards and handcuffs, but it would be nice if we (americans in general) felt a little better about asking someone if they are OK, and reporting it to someone who might actually be able to DO something if there is obviously something off about a person. What the DO is, is the question to be debated for the next decade...

I haven't heard enough yet about Cho Seung-hui to make any conclusions myself regarding if there was anything that could have been done to minimize his potential for being dangerous to others.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by LabRat

..I'm not advocating for troops of rogue psychiatrists roaming the streets with rorschach cards and handcuffs, but it would be nice if we (americans in general) felt a little better about asking someone if they are OK, and reporting it to someone who might actually be able to DO something if there is obviously something off about a person. What the DO is, is the question to be debated for the next decade...
...

I'd like to report some strange behavior from the dork that lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave...