Bridge Collapse

[DanaC]

Or even better, DanaC - rephrase that first paragraph to be political correct? You know what my point was. Post the rewrite.

ok.

Demonstrated is a difference between what yesman065 saw and what I saw. That yellow school bus: time to worry about it was long ago when this failure was predictable. Whereas contents of that bus were immediate concern to those on the bridge, instead, the rest of us should be worrying about all school busses.

or

It's been pointed out that the eye is drawn immediately to the yellow school bus...the time to worry about that schoolbus was was long ago when this failure was predictable. Whereas contents of that bus were immediate concern to those on the bridge, instead, the rest of us should be worrying about all school busses.


tw. I rarely post in such a manner as to make you take umbrage. Yet how rapidly you resort to nastiness. I pointed out to you (as several others did) why that post was percieved by yesman to be insulting to him. The reason he felt insulted, is that he was in fact insulted. That you intended no insult, does not negate the fact that what you posted was insulting. If you really cannot see how what you posted could be construed as an insult then perhaps you should read through the posts in this thread again.

Which brings us right back, again, to two questions. One, what is Uisge Beatha posting? And two, what are your biases that caused you to see something in a post that did not exist? Do you condemn people for worrying about one school bus – or see that worry about one school bus as an example of how people think differently? To see insult in that post, does DanaC assume those who are quick to entertain their emotions considered evil? I do expect answers because these questions only imply exactly what they ask. Those questions were never asked to imply anything. They were asked to elicit an answer.

The fact that two people had different responses to this situation is indicative of very little. You weighted that difference with implied criticism. The implied criticism? That you, unlike Yesman, see the bigger picture.....therefore your insult to yesman, is that he, like the city officials, doesn't see the bigger picture.

Do I ask these questions to attack you? In those questions is only what those questions ask. If your personal biases see them as an attack (as Yesman065 would), then terminate your biases. Those questions only imply exactly what they ask.

This is not about personal biases. Your post was either a) intentionally insulting, or b) unintentionally insulting.

I am quite happy to think that you intended no insult, that indeed, you cannot see why your post would have insulted anybody. For yesman to read an attack into that post required no 'personal biases', nor did it require his being 'childish', it merely required that he have a basic understanding of how the english language works and that he applied that understanding to your post.

DanaC - I don't imply insults. If I was insulting you, then it would be clear how bad I thought your cunt smells. Did I insult your cunt? No. But those who read with implication into everything will now assume so.

There was absolutely no need for that. You have just plummeted in my estimation.

[Griff]

Wow. tw, I think you need to take a step back. We can usually count on you to dig into tech stuff, but here you're taking us off-task. If de-icing is ruining our bridges we need to know it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

In the past, road salt has proven problematic for bridges. Because of the numerous bridges in this area, Indeed, I-95 through Philly is all bridge (elevated highway), I've been concerned about the caustic brines they have started routinely spraying in the last couple years.
When I read an automatic liquid deicing system was installed on this bridge six years ago, it aroused my suspicion because of prior concern.

tw is right in that it's wild speculation at this point and like I said, we won't know for a year, if ever, what caused this failure.

[yesman065]

OK tw, lets end this right here and now - ONE WORD ANSWER ONLY -

Did you call me a "fucking scumbag"? Remember one word answer - if you can manage that.

[Undertoad]

This Star-Tribune story on bridge inspection is very good. It first explains how bridge inspections are done: mostly with a hammer. Turns out it's more of an art than a science. Which is probably why...

In a 2001 Federal Highway Administration test, only 4 percent of inspectors detected a hidden flaw on two bridges.

Yuck. But page two: maybe it's not Iraq funding, but Vietnam funding that caused this one. Can't have guns, butter AND infrastructure? The key stuff:

Schwartz, who closed a number of bridges in New York City in the late '80s, wasn't surprised to learn that the 35W bridge was built in 1967.

"The worst period of bridge building is after World War II and especially in the 1960s," he said. In the late 1800s and early 1900s, engineers were extremely cautious about bridge design, doubling the strength needed to support the deck, then doubling it again, he said.

"But after World War II, we had much finer calculations," he said. "And we believed we were overbuilding [safety features]. The belief was we could build them sleeker and save money and build them with much lower safety factors."

Many bridges from that era weren't built to ensure that the structure would hold up even if one aspect failed. The flaw was exposed when some of those bridges collapsed in the 1970s.

"Nobody builds bridges like that anymore," Schwartz said.

In the 1960s, Pearson said, bridge builders didn't consider metal fatigue a major threat. He said the concept can be understood by bending a paper clip back and forth until it breaks.

"With steel, you can actually predict and calculate how many bends it will take to do that," Pearson said.

[piercehawkeye45]

Like Warch, I was very close to the bridge when it collapsed and it was indeed a very interesting night.

Right now I am on vacation at my friend's place and he lives right next to the "crack stacks" (warch should know) and seeing police cars come by isn't a very rare occurance so for a long time we really didn't think of anything out of the ordinay when a bunch of police cars flew by. Yet as the afternoon went on we kept seeing more and more police cars, ambulances, firetrucks, and just about every boat in the metro area going to I-35.

We finally found out what happened, with numerous phone calls from our parents to make sure we were all right, and apparently our way back to my friend's apartment from where we were eating at the time goes across a footbridge where you have a perfect view of 1-35 so we of course went that way and it was very shocking as you can see from the photos.

The footbridge we walked across was absoultely packed from people trying to see what happened, a very cool thing to see in contrary to the horrors of what just happened since that area is always empty and literally thousands of people went to different spots along that bridge.

About two hours after the collapse the phone lines jammed up so I couldn't get ahold of people and I'm sure many worried family members and friends couldn't get through either which probably scared many people. Not a good situation.

Another scary thing, I got really close to going with my friend to pick up something from his house and he went across the bridge ten minutes before it collapsed. A very scary thought.

I hope the best for everyone that has been affected by this and give my thoughts to everyone that has been affected by the deaths. A tragic day.

[tw]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

About two hours after the collapse the phone lines jammed up so I couldn't get ahold of people and I'm sure many worried family members and friends couldn't get through either which probably scared many people. Not a good situation.

Land lines and mobiles? Or just cell phones?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by tw

Land lines and mobiles? Or just cell phones?

All I know is that the cell phones were jammed.

[tw]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

All I know is that the cell phones were jammed.

I read an article that discussed this. It took a few hours for Cingular and another cell phone company to setup emergency response cells meaning that cells were overloaded in the vicinity of that bridge collapse for two hours.

Meanwhile, I have been saying this for a long time. Why do you use and setup text messaging in your phone? So many older friends cannot be bothered. But when disaster strikes, only text messaging is remains reliable.

The report went on to suggest land line traffic was heavy. It was not stated whether land lines were overloaded - that fast dialing tone.

Curiously, the article suggested that Nextel users did not have the access problems that others were suffering. Do Twin City residents not heavily use Sprint Nextel?

[DanaC]

I am not sure if this observation is of a cause or a symptom, but one thing tw is not is a politician -- he largely does not have the people skills for it, lacking them to such a degree as to suggest not mere ignorance but some organic, inborn deficiency. There are degrees of sociopathy.

Has anyone considered the possibility that tw just doesn't post in an emotional way? (much) Maybe...maybe he's already had an emotional response to such things as the yelow bus, rapidly followed by a train of thought that seeks a wider understanding and by the time he posts here, the emotional part of the response is long since over. Or maybe he really did instantly see the wider picture...in which case, isn't it nice to know that there are people out there who are able to see the wider picture even in the face of emotional situations?

And, no people skills? How could you possibly know that? Some people don't wear their hearts on their virtual sleeve. Some people don't interract online the same way they interract in real life...some people actually require things like eye contact and tone of voice to adequately read (or care about) other people and interract accordingly.


I post on another forum (UKPolitics). I would not dream of opening up and being as much myself on that forum as I do on here. Can't put m'finger quite on why...that indefinable Cellar thang :P

You do not know his background, history or other net usage. You do not know what he's like when he isn't distanced by a keyboard and screen. None of us do, because he has chosen not to make that a part of his online persona in the Cellar. Why is that a fucking problem to you?

Emotionless? Fucking sociopathic now? Good God Almighty, he's just a bloke on a forum, Urbane, why don't you just get over yourself.

And incidentally, if you think anything you've said disqualifies tw from the world of politics then you are a fool.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Has anyone considered the possibility that tw just doesn't post in an emotional way?

No. No one does.

[yesman065]

Everyone - please let it go - this is between tw and I. I created a thread for he and I to hash it out if he is willing. Let us leave it there and keep these threads to the topic at hand. I find that it is a negative energy distracting all of us from sharing our thoughts and opinions on the thread topic and that is not my intention. I know I am a guilty, if not more, than anyone else. Please, lets leave it be.

[DanaC]

Everyone - please let it go - this is between tw and I. I created a thread for he and I to hash it out if he is willing.

You're not the only one with a feud going with tw. UG and he have been clashing for as long as I recall :P Which is fine, even entertaining. But diagnoses of sociopathy? It's a bit ott.

[yesman065]

I know, I know. I feel as though this has morphed into an attack upon him and that I have some culpability in that - lets just not do it here - lets talk about the issues at hand. Every thread is getting riddled with this. I've said my peace - as you were.

[DanaC]

You aren't culpable for what other people post :P