Black Only Schools Proposed

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by lookout123

you aren't going to fix test results unless you can change the family. end of story. the color of skin doesn't matter. the emphasis placed on education and the living environment matter.

But if the family cares deeply about the color of their skin, rightly or wrongly, it can be a reasonable way to meet them halfway. This project in theory already represents families who care, at least enough to actively send their kid to a different school that they believe will be better for them. The real improvements to the community would only possibly come after a few years of the school being in operation, when borderline parents, who maybe care but just don't have a clue what they're doing, have a chance to see the success of the students in the all-black school, and talk to the other parents in the community who already sent their kids there.

Tell the working mom in the ghetto that she has to read to her kids every night after her second shift, and she may just give up right there. But tell her (or rather, have her neighbors and friends show her) a way that she can get her children into a better environment just by applying for this free school, and maybe she'll do it. Is it really better because the teachers are all black, or because the kids are from families who care more and are able to build a better environment for themselves? Why does it matter? To care means to have at least some hope for success, and sometimes it helps to demonstrate the possibility of success to people in a more approachable manner.

this segregation will likely encourage integration on a larger scale

Hilarious! Man that was awesome!

Speaking of Australia (and I typed Abo because I wasy being lazy and did not want to type the whole word... I consider lots of things lots of things, whaaaa, you know I don't believe in offensive words).

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Hilarious! Man that was awesome!

Ah, another one of your intelligent posts that do nothing expect prove your ignorance in this debate. I wouldn't expect more from someone with a, correct me if I'm wrong, 170 IQ. :p

Now, since you can't seem to grasp what I am getting at, I will have to take this in small steps and hopefully you can follow along.

I initially said,

this segregation will likely encourage integration on a larger scale

which seems like a paradox but if you attempt to understand the situation as a whole we can see that this actually does make sense.

Let look at our current situation and I will be using examples with random numbers so they mean nothing.

Right now, the United States is very segregated racially and I am assuming we would like to see integration on a larger scale or at least not fight integration.

So lets look at a public high school in New York where, for the 100 black students, the graduation rate is 50%, only 5 of those 50 that graduate move onto college, and only three of those five actually graduate from college. Lets assume that those three get good jobs and are able to move out of the inner city into an area that is largely white while the other 97 stay in the inner city. Besides that, since the low graduation rates and consequently large crime right, whites and business are reluctant to move into that neighborhood.

Well, the people in that area decide to try something new and work with these black-emphasized schools. Lets take another 100 kids. Since these schools are suppose to raise graduation and college acceptance rates, 75 of the kids graduate from high school, 15 move onto college, and 12 graduate from college. That means instead of three, we have twelve kids that will get good jobs and move into mainly white areas. Not only that, but because of the higher graduation rate and consequentially lower crime rate, businesses and other racial groups will move into the area raising the integration of that area.

Get it? The segregation of schools will help black kids get better jobs and move out of the inner city. With the current integration schools we just see the kids segregate themselves and the cycle continues.


Now I am assuming because of your comment that had absolutely no substance or backing to your side and only consisted of a failed attempt to attack my credibility you have no actual reply and given up on the subject. Am I right?

Ah, another one of your intelligent posts that do nothing expect prove your ignorance in this debate. I wouldn't expect more from someone with a, correct me if I'm wrong, 170 IQ.

Thanks LJ, you have learned to fit right in.
In no way will an all black school encourage what they are stating it will.
No better jobs, no fewer drop-outs, none of it.

[piercehawkeye45]

Well maybe LJ was right?

Anyways, do you have anything to support your views? I have given my side and backed myself up many times and you don't provide anything.

And we shouldn't prevent this from happening just because we have doubts. I have already stated this before, the current system is NOT working. We are not integrated and we will not be as long as we follow the same path. We might as well try something new and risk the chance of it failing, even though evidence goes against this doubt.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

And we shouldn't prevent this from happening just because we have doubts. I have already stated this before, the current system is NOT working. We are not integrated and we will not be as long as we follow the same path. We might as well try something new and risk the chance of it failing, even though evidence goes against this doubt.

Amen
It's a fact that things aren't working for some pupils.
There seems to be an attitude that it is somehow pandering to a select group of people. But problems in education cost more money for society further on down the line. There's a higher cost to not trying.

This is a way to try and change things before people end up claiming benefits, committing crime, getting free healthcare.

What's the worst that can happen? Really?

There was a very interesting programme called The Unteachables on Channel 4 recently about disruptive and soon-to-be-excluded children of 14-15. I watched it huffily at first, thinking "The system isn't failing, they are! They need to learn to fit in, they'll have to for the rest of their life!"

The series changed my mind. Of the 16 kids selected for the study course, 9 (a clear majority) completed it and were back at school making progress the next school year. It changed their whole attitude to school and learning. I realised that some pupils do need a different approach - and who suffers if they don't get it? Well, the children of course. And then me at a later date.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Well maybe LJ was right?

Anyways, do you have anything to support your views? I have given my side and backed myself up many times and you don't provide anything.

And we shouldn't prevent this from happening just because we have doubts. I have already stated this before, the current system is NOT working. We are not integrated and we will not be as long as we follow the same path. We might as well try something new and risk the chance of it failing, even though evidence goes against this doubt.

No, LJ chose to ignore the multiple times I stated that the tests were incorrect and that I don't believe that I am that intelligent and chose just to use that one small part of the statement to try to hurt me, which you are now doing too because you are exactly like him. Someone who uses something they know about someone to try to hurt them when you simply disagree with them instead of debating them with your intellect like a stand-up human being. The proof is clear, shown by your above action.
A good thing, now I know who you are.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

No, LJ chose to ignore the multiple times I stated that the tests were incorrect and that I don't believe that I am that intelligent and chose just to use that one small part of the statement to try to hurt me, which you are now doing too because you are exactly like him. Someone who uses something they know about someone to try to hurt them when you simply disagree with them instead of debating them with your intellect like a stand-up human being. The proof is clear, shown by your above action.
A good thing, now I know who you are.

And the "hilarious man, that was awesome" was so much different than what I did? I know mine was much more personal but you just took a small part of my post that could very easily be taken wrong and then tried to hurt my creditability by laughing at it with no backing on what you thought was wrong with my statement.

The reason LJ attacks you is not out of pure sport, but because you set yourself up for it. For example, you get very pissy when someone takes your words out of context or you have to repeat yourself but then you just go and do it to other people. If you wouldn't have said what you did, I would have never even thought about using that attack. I am not offended by what you said, just as I am sure you are not offended by what I said, but we can both agree of the frustration we both get when faced with a response such as that.

Sure, as long as you feel the same way about a white only school when someone wants one.

I will support a white-emphasis school when there is the need for one. Black-emphasis school's could have the possibility of significantly increasing the educational results of black children but there is nothing in comparison for white children.

Either way, if you want to go to a white-emphasis school you can send your kid's to a private school or move to the suburbs, there isn't much difference.

As long as we look at people as different based on their shade we will CAUSE this problem and will never be able to solve it with anything that continues that behavior.

Yes. But for any major changes to happen we need society to change and that will prove to be extremely difficult.

Sure, as long as you feel the same way about a white only school when someone wants one.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Sure, as long as you feel the same way about a white only school when someone wants one.

If this addresses me - all but one of the kids in the CH4 documentary in the were white. Race (black culture, call it what you will) is less of an issue in the UK than socio-economic status. I am all for targeting children whose needs aren't being met by the current education system. I would rather see something tried than call the wah-hah-hambulance saying "It's not fair to the kids who are already succeeding!" because they are the one who will have to deal with an uneducated sub-class in 20 years time.

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Race (black culture, call it what you will) is less of an issue in the UK than socio-economic status.

It's the same in the states, the difference is in the stats. There's probably a much higher correlation between color and social class here (because there is a VERY big correlation in the states). The problem is not their color, it's their moneys. Now, if you're poor, you have a good chance of being black. If you're black, you have a fantastic chance of being poor.

And rk, my initial reaction (and one that continued until about two days ago) was that this kind of segregation is a bad bad bad idea. It probably stemmed just from a negative association with the words "____-only schools." However, I've changed my mind for two reasons: first, the powers of segregation are not institutionalized really, but are self perpetuating (as piercehawk did a pretty good job of describing, saving me some typing), and second (and more importantly) is that the school will not actually be segregated in rule, just in content. The only way to change these socially stratifying forces is to give special attention to the group that is in need. It might not be "fair" to the rest of the world, but frankly I couldn't give a crap, we've got it alright and we can spare some money and time.

The main point is a large section of our society is getting crapped on from every direction. I could care less who's fault it is, or if someone deserves the help or not, I'd just be happier with a lower class that was more socially mobile... which was supposed to be the American dream.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Sure, as long as you feel the same way about a white only school when someone wants one.

NOTE TO RKZENRAGE: A black-only school was not proposed. White-only schools are irrelevant.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Are readin', writin' & 'rithmatic, black or white?

[monster]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Sure, as long as you feel the same way about a white only school when someone wants one.

They're not proposing a black-only school.

As long as we look at people as different based on their shade we will CAUSE this problem and will never be able to solve it with anything that continues that behavior. Racism is racism is racism, the only way to end it is to acknowledge that there is only one race, the human one and treat us all like the single race we are, African descendants who each have different familial backgrounds, with different distances from the equator for different periods of time.
I am not "white". Even if one wanted to look at me like that, I am Cherokee, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Apache, Caribbean and probably African American (we are 99% sure, other than the fact that we are all African)... so what am I? I am human, anything else is a lie and needs to be openly treated as such.
As soon as we treat all who treat each other as anything but human as a negative the better.