The Bible Is Bullshit

[Flint]

You know, the people who make these videos often make the same mistake as the people they are criticizing: not substantiating their statements enough to convince anyone other than people who already agree with them.

I mean, is 15 seconds really long enough to summarize why, if God existed there would have to be physical proof? The air of finality with which people make such absolute statements only serves to discredit the premise of everything they are saying. It sounds like they didn't put much thought into it.

[DanaC]

Yeah....well, even a war of ideas needs grunts :P

[Ruminator]

Thanks Dana, I'm not put out, just taken back a bit from the experience while soaking it in and feeling what its like to learn from it. Its a new experience.
You gave a great description above to an ongoing, dynamic situation. As I said above its just quite different from what I'm used to.
Your history that you included is helpful in my understanding the nature of the cellar's character.
The "mischief" you mentioned, for me, is an encumbrance to the serious discussion at hand. I think that I got less than usual perhaps because I've tried to make it clear I'm not here to bash about with my beliefs and then disappear.
I've been very pleased with being a nooby how people have posted in response to me. Plus as a bonus it looks like I am as a christian in a minority here, providing me an additional learning opportunity.


Flint, you make a very good point.

[elSicomoro]

I think the Bible is a great book of faith...as well as a great storybook. Like this, from Ezekiel 22:

Jerusalem's Sins

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, will you judge her? Will you judge this city of bloodshed? Then confront her with all her detestable practices 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O city that brings on herself doom by shedding blood in her midst and defiles herself by making idols, 4 you have become guilty because of the blood you have shed and have become defiled by the idols you have made. You have brought your days to a close, and the end of your years has come. Therefore I will make you an object of scorn to the nations and a laughingstock to all the countries. 5 Those who are near and those who are far away will mock you, O infamous city, full of turmoil.

6 " 'See how each of the princes of Israel who are in you uses his power to shed blood. 7 In you they have treated father and mother with contempt; in you they have oppressed the alien and mistreated the fatherless and the widow. 8 You have despised my holy things and desecrated my Sabbaths. 9 In you are slanderous men bent on shedding blood; in you are those who eat at the mountain shrines and commit lewd acts. 10 In you are those who dishonor their fathers' bed; in you are those who violate women during their period, when they are ceremonially unclean. 11 In you one man commits a detestable offense with his neighbor's wife, another shamefully defiles his daughter-in-law, and another violates his sister, his own father's daughter. 12 In you men accept bribes to shed blood; you take usury and excessive interest [a] and make unjust gain from your neighbors by extortion. And you have forgotten me, declares the Sovereign LORD.

13 " 'I will surely strike my hands together at the unjust gain you have made and at the blood you have shed in your midst. 14 Will your courage endure or your hands be strong in the day I deal with you? I the LORD have spoken, and I will do it. 15 I will disperse you among the nations and scatter you through the countries; and I will put an end to your uncleanness. 16 When you have been defiled [b] in the eyes of the nations, you will know that I am the LORD.' "

17 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. 19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: 'Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. 21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.' "

23 Again the word of the LORD came to me: 24 "Son of man, say to the land, 'You are a land that has had no rain or showers [c] in the day of wrath.' 25 There is a conspiracy of her princes [d] within her like a roaring lion tearing its prey; they devour people, take treasures and precious things and make many widows within her. 26 Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them. 27 Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. 28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says'-when the LORD has not spoken. 29 The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice.

30 "I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none. 31 So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD."

This shit rocks!

[Ruminator]

That description of the city sounds a lot like some modern cities today, like Washington D.C., Chicago ...
The word alien there refers to those living in the land who were not of one of the twelve tribes of Israel.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Wetbacks.

[Sundae]

Ah God's much vaunted mercy.
An account I read recently had God make a woman pregnant with conjoined (so-called Siamese) twins. He sent them as a blessing.

Heathen doctors advised abortion, because it was unlikely they would go to term, or survive birth. But God prevailed and the two miracle girls lived. Sadly, they had to have a painful and invasive procedure, after which one of the twins died. Her experience of life was nasty, brutish and short.

Still, the parents were right, because the other girl survived and they praised God.

Well, until she also died this week.

But they praised God all the same for the blessing their daughters brought them and the fact that God does everything for a reason and obviously called them home. The odd thing is, it was the NHS (my money) that saw that 18 year old through her pregnancy, who paid the a team of 20 for the 11 hour long operation, that kept her ill-advised offspring in intensive care.

I'm all for the NHS, don't get me wrong. But it seems ingenuous to me that a teenager can keep foetuses unlikely to survive, against all medical advice, and come out of it saying to the press that it was God's will. Tax God and I might start letting him in on these decisions.

Sorry, wanted to get that off my chest.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Who the fuck said God was in on any of these decisions? Did God tell you he did all these things? Since you don't believe in God, why the fuck would you believe "An account I read recently" attributing this bullshit to God?

[Clodfobble]

I think her point is obviously God wasn't in on the plan, and SG shouldn't have to pay for the plan with her taxes just because this chick claimed it was God's will.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I realize she was ridiculing these idiots explaining their bad decisions as God's will... but;

Tax God and I might start letting him in on these decisions.

I assume the Brits in question pay taxes like everyone else in the NHS, and obviously must be entitled to make bad decisions under that system.
God did not make these decisions, Brits did. God didn't created the NHS that poured resources into this case as a result of the bad decisions, Brits did.
If you give God no credit, then don't assign God blame.

[Aliantha]

I don't think she was blaming God either.

The way I read it, she simply quoted what she'd read and doesn't believe God had anything to do with it but that the woman's faith had plenty to do with it and in the end, the outcome was pretty much as the doctors had predicted.

[Madman]

Originally Posted by wolf

If you think it's bullshit, then don't read it.

I choose not to read romance novels for the same reason.

But I don't take the position that other people shouldn't, nor do I demand that they agree with me.

Yeah man... I agree!

Originally Posted by busterb

Be nice if ya could get out of the frikin links and have a look at others.

Yes. Link would have been nice.

Originally Posted by Yznhymr

Radar is so full of shit squirrels from neighboring cities drop out of trees when he passes gas. Give me a break. I'm so tired of the Bible bashing and the gay bashing and the _____ bashing. Why bash? Just be cool and not sweat the small stuff. If you are so hurt you can't go without attacking a group you disagree with, go see a good head shrink and get some meds. You really need it.

Yeah, I agree.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Maybe he got tired of hearing how atheists have no moral values, or just that their values are in fact from God without them realising. Granted it was a provocative title...but then Radar is a provocateur, it's part of what he does. Good stuff. Personally, I liked this thread. The title made me laugh.

Yeah, me too! I agree!

Originally Posted by Griff

I didn't know the Morman thing before, it kinda puts the whole Radar persona in context.

You know... I agree with you.

Originally Posted by monster

it's not just that we're in a minority, but it's like being black 50 years ago ...it's ok and even encouraged to discrimanate against us, even if the law says it's not ok. FFS people want the 10 comandments in the law courts!

Whenever anyone is killed, the news report always has soundbite about how the deceased went to church regulary and was "god-fearing". WTF? You don't hear people saying "she was a lovely person, as white as they come...'

I think you're right... I agree with that.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Arguing religion is better on the internet because if you get exasperated and walk away, you can come back later and continue as if nothing has happened.

Yeah, I can agree with that.

Originally Posted by Flint

You know, the people who make these videos often make the same mistake as the people they are criticizing: not substantiating their statements enough to convince anyone other than people who already agree with them.

I mean, is 15 seconds really long enough to summarize why, if God existed there would have to be physical proof? The air of finality with which people make such absolute statements only serves to discredit the premise of everything they are saying. It sounds like they didn't put much thought into it.

Uh-uh... what you said makes sense. I'm inclined to agree.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Yeah....well, even a war of ideas needs grunts :P

I agree.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I don't think she was blaming God either.

The way I read it, she simply quoted what she'd read and doesn't believe God had anything to do with it but that the woman's faith had plenty to do with it and in the end, the outcome was pretty much as the doctors had predicted.

Me neither. I agree.





what was this thread about again....

[Griff]

You're too darn agreeable.

[Sundae]

Yup, Ali gets it.
In every account of the story I read, God was mentioned by the parents. Everything was down to God. It just got up my nose a bit that he was still being referenced when both girls were dead and a lot of time and money had been spent on them, against all medical advice.

I don't say any of it is God's fault because I don't believe in him. But his name is often invoked to explain poor judgement.

[xoxoxoBruce]

People that can't, or won't, make reasonable decisions always pass the buck. It's God's will, nature takes it's course, fate intervened, luck ran out, ad nauseum... but it all boils down to bad decisions and a system that caters to those bad decisions, no matter what their excuse.

Tax God and I might start letting him in on these decisions.

Taxing God is impossible, and I don't think you have any say in who is involved in these decisions, since you are neither the Doctor nor patient.
If you don't think the NHS acted properly, complain to your elected representative. Tell them to change the system so these people can't waste your money.